Police officers indicted for murder

[nitestokker]

Two police officers involved in a 50-bullet barrage that killed an unarmed man on his wedding day were indicted on charges of manslaughter, and a third faces a misdemeanor charge, a person familiar with the investigation said Saturday.

The officers were indicted Friday by a grand jury that had deliberated for three days over whether to bring charges in the death of Sean Bell, who was shot while leaving a bachelor party last November.

Michael Oliver, who fired 31 of the shots, and Gescard Isnora, who fired 11, face the felony manslaughter charges, according to a person who spoke with The Associated Press on the condition of anonymity because the indictment is sealed.

Marc Cooper, who fired four shots, faces the misdemeanor endangerment charge, the person said.

The indictment is to be unsealed Monday. Lawyers for the three officers said the defendants had been told to surrender then for arraignment. Prosecutors have declined to discuss the grand jury's work.

Police union officials defended the officers in the Bell shooting, arguing they were responding to reasonable suspicions that the victims were armed and dangerous. Supporters said an indictment does not necessarily lead to a conviction.

"You can indict a ham sandwich or even a rock in the grand jury," said Michael Palladino, president of the 15,000-member Detectives Endowment Association.

The grand jury declined to indict on the more serious counts of second-degree murder, or the lesser charge of criminally negligent homicide.

The decision came nearly four months after the shooting, which led to angry protests and raised questions about police tactics.

The men who were shot were black. Cooper, 39, and Isnora, 28, are also black; Oliver, 35, is white. Authorities said the other two officers not charged, one black and one white - were not charged.

[nitestokker]

31 shots fired by one officer? Hmmm. So If I'm that officer, I am not being fired upon, but yet I have enough time to fire fifteen rounds (depending on the caliber of the weapon), reload and fire another fifteen rounds before I realize that I just fucked up. Hmmm. Don't drop the soap, buddy.

[countybear]

The men who were shot were black. Cooper, 39, and Isnora, 28, are also black; Oliver, 35, is white. Authorities said the other two officers not charged, one black and one white - were not charged.

Ah, yes... the all important race recap. Thank you, Mr. Newsworthy for making sure we are fully aware of each race represented in this fiasco. Shame though, they forgot to tell what races and how many of each were represented in the Grand Jury, the prosecution, defense counsel, Judge, bailiff, court clerk, and the blind guy that runs the hotdog stand down the street from the courthouse.

[BEB]

Countybear - you forgot the race of the guy who designed the gun. It's a systemic problem going back many generations.

Agreeing on that nonsense doesn't mean I'm expressing a view on the case itself, just to be clear. I haven't been following it and don't have much of one at the moment.

[nitestokker]

And the person who designed the police car that was used in the shooting was probably a one-eyed, black, lesbian Jew in a wheelchair. Don't forget that person when the lawsuits start flying.

[Big Al]

Don't forget the familys who are now scarred for life,,, $$$$$$$$$$$ civil lawsuit

[So Fla Cop]

31 shots fired by one officer? Hmmm. So If I'm that officer, I am not being fired upon, but yet I have enough time to fire fifteen rounds (depending on the caliber of the weapon), reload and fire another fifteen rounds before I realize that I just fucked up. Hmmm. Don't drop the soap, buddy.

That is an unfair and dangerous assumption. You should know better, unless, of course, you were there and witnessed this or are friends with Fat Al..

[Big Al]

Sharpton the "Shark" and yes this is all presumptuous at this time,, but we all have opinions

[So Fla Cop]

Sharpton the "Shark" and yes this is all presumptuous at this time,, but we all have opinions

That was the point of my response. That situation could have been anyone one of us under certain circumstances. To joke about something that is that close to home and that you have no idea of the details is irresponsible, at best.

I have been shot at on two different occasions. I have fired at someone on three different occasions. To hear the gunshots, see the flashes, and not knowing where those bullets are going is fucking scary. It is called doing your job. Who knows what these guys saw or heard to make them open fire. The whole situation SUCKS.

That's my opinion.

[TwanimusPrime]

I love how thw newspapers always say the suspect (yes, suspect, not victim) was "unarmed."

Ok mr reported, how about I hop in a car, run you down, then say you shouldn't have been bothered by it because I was "unarmed." several tons of steel is just as, if not more deadly, than a knife or gun.

unarmed my ass.

[countybear]

I'll drop two more cents, then I'll shut up...

I have to agree with So Fla Cop here, with a slightly different twist, I suppose.

Anytime one of us come under fire, we all do. Anytime one of us kill, we all do. This might seem ridiculous, but think about it. In the court of public opinion, every action taken by a lone police officer or (small group of officers) bears reflection on every cop on the street.

When an offender points a weapon intending to kill a cop, its not that individual cop that he is shooting at, its the uniform, the badge, and the threat to his freedom that this one cop represents at the time he pulls the trigger. His last thoughts are of nothing but a blind panic and/or a focused rage, before the vicious act of violence. This is one reason that in my mind, killing a cop is the most selfish and severe of all crimes, because it is a flagrant and indiscriminate strike against the very society that an individual lives in.

When a cop kills, we all do. Civilians only investigate as far as the evening news. The masses are spoon-fed by a sensationalist and profiteering media. For those of us around when Rodney King took the asswhipping in L.A., remember back to the carefully edited video of the incident which sparked riots almost nationwide. Remember the warnings about going into certain neighborhoods from our superiors and the entire neighborhood turning out to witness (or interfere in) every call we went on there. That asswhipping was no more than a few cops, but we all took the hit for it, albeit undeserved.

We, ladies and gentlemen are a cut above. We are called into this profession by a deep, abiding desire to make a positive difference in the lives of those around us. From the first-day rookie to the 30-year vet, we have self-imposed ourselves into the pictures that we watch on television, all in the hopes that we can substantially and difinitively impact and change the situations where the innocent are victimized and the offender walks away. In doing so, we are under a microscope, and are tried by the public as a whole, for the actions of all who choose the same path. We walk a fine line which crosses through all socio-economic, cultural, and racial facets in society, and we must do it with grace, fortitude, wisdom, and perseverence.

I do not know what happened in this incident, but I am reasonable enough to admit that, and refrain from passing even a jovial judgement or remark about the actions of these officers. I pray that they performed within the scope of their duty, for the sake of every one of us who shares that duty.

[HudsonHawk]

I feel they were indicted based upon grand jurors exposure to the media. Police Commissioner Ray Kelly made a completely false statement after the shooting, saying NYPD are trained to fire 3 shots then reassess the situation before firing again. NYPD is NOT trained that way, when I went through the academy there I was trained to shoot until the threat was gone. I'm sure the indicted individuals will say the same thing. Coincidently, right after the Bell shooting, a *new* shoot 3 times and reassess training session was implemented into requalifications. One of the detectives was indicted on a Misd charge of Reckless Endangerment for firing 4 times, while another detective was not indicted for firing 3 times!

NYPD fired 50 shots (1,3,4,11,31)

The person who fired 31 times states he thought his gun had jammed so he reloaded. To my knowledge the driver was only hit 3 times and all 3 hits were by this officer. The number of rounds may seem excessive but if the threat was still there, would you stop shooting?

The detective who fired the second most shots (11) was the victim who was assaulted/struck by the suspect's vehicle.

Don't forget the facts of this incident:
1. An argument took place in the club in front of undercover officers.
2. A suspect (passenger in the car) stated they were getting a gun.
3. To my knowledge the suspects had an extensive arrest history including Weapon and Robbery charges.
4. The driver was DWI.
5. The undercover officer identified himself.
6. The detectives saw a suspect making a furtive movement as if reaching for a gun.
7. The DRUNK driver assaulted the undercover by striking the detective with his car!
8. The DRUNK driver rammed a police vehicle - TWICE!

The NYPD Vice team should be indemnified by the city. They appear to be justified by the NYS Penal Law under several sections from my interpretation. I think it is reasonable to say that the car is a deadly weapon. Sean Bell's actions of ramming both a detective and police vehicle constituted deadly physical force against them.

§ 35.15 Justification; use of physical force in defense of a person.
...
2. A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person under circumstances specified in subdivision one unless: (a) The actor reasonably believes that such other person is using or about to use deadly physical force...the actor is under no duty to retreat if he or she is:...(ii) a police officer...


§ 35.30 Justification; use of physical force in making an arrest or in preventing an escape.
1. A police officer or a peace officer, in the course of effecting or attempting to effect an arrest, or of preventing or attempting to prevent the escape from custody, of a person whom he or she reasonably believes to have committed an offense, may use physical force when and to the extent he or she reasonably believes such to be necessary to effect the arrest, or to prevent the escape from custody, or in self-defense or to defend a third person from what he or she reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of physical force; except that deadly physical force may be used for such purposes only when he or she reasonably believes that:
(a) The offense committed by such person was: (i) a felony or an attempt to commit a felony involving the use or attempted use or threatened imminent use of physical force against a person; or...
(b) The offense committed or attempted by such person was a felony and that, in the course of resisting arrest therefor or attempting to escape from custody, such person is armed with a firearm or deadly weapon...

[Buttercup]

I feel they were indicted based upon grand jurors exposure to the media.

I'm inclined to agree with you. While I know that this incident has received national coverage, it's rarely left the news here since the day it happened. There's no way for them (grand jurors) to not be exposed to biased coverage.

[Big Al]

That was the point of my response. That situation could have been anyone one of us under certain circumstances. To joke about something that is that close to home and that you have no idea of the details is irresponsible, at best.

I have been shot at on two different occasions. I have fired at someone on three different occasions. To hear the gunshots, see the flashes, and not knowing where those bullets are going is fucking scary. It is called doing your job. Who knows what these guys saw or heard to make them open fire. The whole situation SUCKS.

That's my opinion.

I know what you mean,,
Bad guy shot twice at me and once at deputy.
deputy shot 16
I shot 10, shot until no threat perceived
bad guy dead
I went home that day
end of story

[Vendetta]

From what I have read I have to agree with the officers on scene. Because I have known some ignorant officers in my past and some that were a lawsuit waiting to happen and I can honestly say that none that I know of would have shot that many times without a REAL PERCIEVED THREAT. Now these officers are going to get persecuted by the media for what they did.
If the guys over at NYPD Rant are any indication then I dont know why any NYPD guys are still on the job. If they do there job they are screwed. If they dont do there job they are screwed. They have a shit salary and a leader that doesnt seem to care.

[Buttercup]

I cannot believe this, I'm watching the news and these are the words from the lead story:

"He's indicted in the Sean Bell shooting but this detective is having a night on the town - cameras show him with friends having a very expensive dinner in uptown Manhattan...."

They had cameras hounding the guy outside of the restaurant and then graphics detailing what he and his friends had for dinner.

Unbelievable.

[nitestokker]

That was the point of my response. That situation could have been anyone one of us under certain circumstances. To joke about something that is that close to home and that you have no idea of the details is irresponsible, at best.

I have been shot at on two different occasions. I have fired at someone on three different occasions. To hear the gunshots, see the flashes, and not knowing where those bullets are going is fucking scary. It is called doing your job. Who knows what these guys saw or heard to make them open fire. The whole situation SUCKS.

That's my opinion.

I got thirteen confirmed kills in Desert Storm, and yes, I know what the flashes, snaps, pops and hisses are all about. Don't preach to me about being shot at or killing someone because I have blown another man's brains out of his fucking skull and stood there to smell it. Maybe I don't have all the facts, but based on what I have I think these guys are fucked. Don't ever go there with me unless you know from what you speak.

[So Fla Cop]

I got thirteen confirmed kills in Desert Storm, and yes, I know what the flashes, snaps, pops and hisses are all about.

Thank you for your service.

Don't ever go there with me unless you know from what you speak.

That was my point exactly. You don't know. You have formed a negative opinion based on an untruthfull media. These guys, and all of us, deserve better than that from each other.

[countybear]

If one of your own had just been intentionally struck by a car driven by a drunk, then that same car (driver) rammed a police vehicle twice, after one of the occupants threatened to produce a firearm, do you think you might just possibly consider deadly force?

I mean, while we are showing off battlescars and tattoos, how about considering the incident some...

[Ducky]

I firmly believe that a car can and often is used as a lethal weapon. The fact that the media keeps going on about how this guy was unarmed is BS, he was controlling a 1500 pound vehicle and using it to try and kill officers. And I could care less when he was to get married, WTF does that have to do with ANYTHING?? Now his buddies (who seem to feel they are innocent by association) are pushing this for all they're worth. Screw 'em, they're thugs.