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  1. #1
    Big Sexy's Avatar
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    Montana First In Nation To Enact Law Rejecting Real Id Act

    MONTANA FIRST IN NATION TO ENACT LAW REJECTING REAL ID ACT

    Although a number of other states are considering similar measures, Montana became the first state in the nation to pass a law rejecting the REAL ID Act on Tuesday. The REAL ID Act, enacted in the wake of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, sets national standards for driver’s licenses; requires states to verify information provided by applicants to establish their identity and lawful status in the U.S.; and establishes physical security standards for locations where licenses and identification cards are issued.

    The cards are intended to prevent terrorism, reduce fraud, and improve thereliability and accuracy of identification documents that state governments issue. Initially, they would be required to board a commercial aircraft, access a federal facility, and enter a nuclear power plant. However, DHS officials could expand the use of these cards “to maximize the security benefits of REAL ID.”

    Technically, states have until May 11, 2008 to comply with the requirements of the Act. With many states concerned about being able to meet that deadline, though, DHS has established a procedure so that states can apply for an extension until December 31, 2009.

    Under Montana’s new law, the state “will not participate in the implementation” of REAL ID; the state’s motor vehicle division is banned from implementing it; and any attempts by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to “secure the implementation” of the Act must be reported to Montana Governor Brian Schweitzer (D).

    Critics of the REAL ID Act say the law, in essence, creates a national identity card system by federalizing state driver’s licenses. Aside from Montana, similar legislation is awaiting the governor’s signature in Washington; 13 other states have passed anti-REAL ID legislation in at least one legislative chamber; Maine and Idaho have passed resolutions rejecting participation in REAL ID; Arkansas recently passed two anti-REAL ID measures; and bills have been introduced in 12 more states. In Congress, several bills have also been introduced to “fix” REAL ID, including proposals by Senators Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii) and John Sununu (R-New Hampshire) and Rep. Tom Allen (D-Maine).

    DHS issued proposed rules implementing the REAL ID Act at the beginning of March.
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  2. #2
    Ducky's Avatar
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    I thought state laws couldn't trump national laws?
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  3. #3
    BEB
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    GO MONTANA!

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    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

  4. #4
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    Don't be surprised if the Federal Government ties some sort of funding to compliance.

    They did it with the National drinking age.
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  5. #5
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    I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with the Real ID Act. It just helps ensure that cards that appear to be government ID are actually government ID, and it's a good start toward preventing illegal aliens from getting benefits they're not entitled to.

    There are plenty of idiotic laws coming out of Washington, why get bent out of shape over one that will do some good?
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  6. #6
    conalabu is offline Grasshopper
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope View Post
    I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with the Real ID Act. It just helps ensure that cards that appear to be government ID are actually government ID, and it's a good start toward preventing illegal aliens from getting benefits they're not entitled to.

    There are plenty of idiotic laws coming out of Washington, why get bent out of shape over one that will do some good?

    The big reason is because it directly steps on State toes. The Constitution clearly states there is a line between what is the realm of the Federal Government and what is the realm of the State government. The smaller reasons are legion. My first reaction to the Act is it seems awfully close to Federal police action.
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  7. #7
    BEB
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    How about a technology angle on the REAL ID?

    http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0404.html#1

    National ID Cards
    by Bruce Schneier
    Founder and CTO
    Counterpane Internet Security, Inc.

    As a security technologist, I regularly encounter people who say the United States should adopt a national ID card. How could such a program not make us more secure, they ask?

    The suggestion, when it's made by a thoughtful civic-minded person like Nicholas Kristof in the New York Times, often takes on a tone that is regretful and ambivalent: Yes, indeed, the card would be a minor invasion of our privacy, and undoubtedly it would add to the growing list of interruptions and delays we encounter every day; but we live in dangerous times, we live in a new world....

    It all sounds so reasonable, but there's a lot to disagree with in such an attitude.

    The potential privacy encroachments of an ID card system are far from minor. And the interruptions and delays caused by incessant ID checks could easily proliferate into a persistent traffic jam in office lobbies and airports and hospital waiting rooms and shopping malls.

    But my primary objection isn't the totalitarian potential of national IDs, nor the likelihood that they'll create a whole immense new class of social and economic dislocations. Nor is it the opportunities they will create for colossal boondoggles by government contractors. My objection to the national ID card, at least for the purposes of this essay, is much simpler.

    It won't work. It won't make us more secure.

    In fact, everything I've learned about security over the last 20 years tells me that once it is put in place, a national ID card program will actually make us less secure.

    My argument may not be obvious, but it's not hard to follow, either. It centers around the notion that security must be evaluated not based on how it works, but on how it fails.

    It doesn't really matter how well an ID card works when used by the hundreds of millions of honest people that would carry it. What matters is how the system might fail when used by someone intent on subverting that system: how it fails naturally, how it can be made to fail, and how failures might be exploited.

    The first problem is the card itself. No matter how unforgeable we make it, it will be forged. And even worse, people will get legitimate cards in fraudulent names.

    Two of the 9/11 terrorists had valid Virginia driver's licenses in fake names. And even if we could guarantee that everyone who issued national ID cards couldn't be bribed, initial cardholder identity would be determined by other identity documents... all of which would be easier to forge.

    Not that there would ever be such thing as a single ID card. Currently about 20 percent of all identity documents are lost per year. An entirely separate security system would have to be developed for people who lost their card, a system that itself is capable of abuse.

    Additionally, any ID system involves people... people who regularly make mistakes. We all have stories of bartenders falling for obviously fake IDs, or sloppy ID checks at airports and government buildings. It's not simply a matter of training; checking IDs is a mind-numbingly boring task, one that is guaranteed to have failures. Biometrics such as thumbprints show some promise here, but bring with them their own set of exploitable failure modes.

    But the main problem with any ID system is that it requires the existence of a database. In this case it would have to be an immense database of private and sensitive information on every American -- one widely and instantaneously accessible from airline check-in stations, police cars, schools, and so on.

    The security risks are enormous. Such a database would be a kludge of existing databases; databases that are incompatible, full of erroneous data, and unreliable. As computer scientists, we do not know how to keep a database of this magnitude secure, whether from outside hackers or the thousands of insiders authorized to access it.

    And when the inevitable worms, viruses, or random failures happen and the database goes down, what then? Is America supposed to shut down until it's restored?

    Proponents of national ID cards want us to assume all these problems, and the tens of billions of dollars such a system would cost -- for what? For the promise of being able to identify someone?

    What good would it have been to know the names of Timothy McVeigh, the Unabomber, or the DC snipers before they were arrested? Palestinian suicide bombers generally have no history of terrorism. The goal is here is to know someone's intentions, and their identity has very little to do with that.

    And there are security benefits in having a variety of different ID documents. A single national ID is an exceedingly valuable document, and accordingly there's greater incentive to forge it. There is more security in alert guards paying attention to subtle social cues than bored minimum-wage guards blindly checking IDs.

    That's why, when someone asks me to rate the security of a national ID card on a scale of one to 10, I can't give an answer. It doesn't even belong on a scale.

  8. #8
    Pedro56's Avatar
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    You know what is nice? I am looking for real estate there and am looking for a law enforcement job there, I am getting tired of the trash in this city (politicians), I am tired of a lot of the residents, I don't want to be here when the olympics comes because the taes are going to go through the roof and my neighborhood will turn into another ghetto because the poor will be the only ones that will be able to afford living there. I also went to this site which made me happy about MT.

    http://www.stategunlaws.org/

    http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?st=MT
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  9. #9
    121Traffic's Avatar
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    Pedro, Montana isn't for everybody, but it is a beautiful state. My girlfriend lives there now, has her whole life. She loves it, but she's moving here in August once the schoolyear is out (she's a teacher). No matter how much she loves it, she is way too outgoing to live in a town of 1200 people. If you do move there, I would suggest somewhere like BIllings, with a pop of about 100k, but you can live on the fringe of town and escape by yourself when you need to.
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  10. #10
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    Montana First In Nation To Enact Law Rejecting Real Id Act

    Not a problem.

    At the airport, you have federal ID military, law enforcement, work ID, passport you go to this line (fast, fast, fast); you have state ID or foreign you go to this line to be checked (slow, slow, slow).

    Federal checkers remember.

    Fed Id report one hour early, state ID report three hours early.

    You want to fly easy get a passport.

    We are the thin blue line
    between you
    and all the money in the world.

    And no you can't have any.

  11. #11
    Pedro56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 121Traffic View Post
    Pedro, Montana isn't for everybody, but it is a beautiful state. My girlfriend lives there now, has her whole life. She loves it, but she's moving here in August once the schoolyear is out (she's a teacher). No matter how much she loves it, she is way too outgoing to live in a town of 1200 people. If you do move there, I would suggest somewhere like BIllings, with a pop of about 100k, but you can live on the fringe of town and escape by yourself when you need to.


    I am tired of the city bud. I would rather be in a small couple thousand person town, maybe even like the town I used to spend my summers in when I was a boy, 300 pop.
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