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Thread: "Disarming America"
04-27-07, 04:19 PM #1
This man once represented the United States? That's frightening.
LAST week's tragedy at Virginia Tech in which a mentally disturbed person gunned down 32 of America's finest - intelligent young people with futures ahead of them - once again puts the phenomenon of an armed society into focus for Americans.
The likely underestimate of how many guns are wandering around America runs at 240 million in a population of about 300 million. What was clear last week is that at least two of those guns were in the wrong hands.
When people talk about doing something about guns in America, it often comes down to this: "How could America disarm even if it wanted to? There are so many guns out there."
Because I have little or no power to influence the "if" part of the issue, I will stick with the "how." And before anyone starts to hyperventilate and think I'm a crazed liberal zealot wanting to take his gun from his cold, dead hands, let me share my experience of guns.
As a child I played cowboys and Indians with cap guns. I had a Daisy Red Ryder B-B gun. My father had in his bedside table drawer an old pistol which I examined surreptitiously from time to time. When assigned to the American embassy in Beirut during the war in Lebanon, I sometimes carried a .357 Magnum, which I could fire accurately. I also learned to handle and fire a variety of weapons while I was there, including Uzis and rocket-propelled grenade launchers.
I don't have any problem with hunting, although blowing away animals with high-powered weapons seems a pointless, no-contest affair to me. I suppose I would enjoy the fellowship of the experience with other friends who are hunters.
Now, how would one disarm the American population? First of all, federal or state laws would need to make it a crime punishable by a $1,000 fine and one year in prison per weapon to possess a firearm. The population would then be given three months to turn in their guns, without penalty.
Hunters would be able to deposit their hunting weapons in a centrally located arsenal, heavily guarded, from which they would be able to withdraw them each hunting season upon presentation of a valid hunting license. The weapons would be required to be redeposited at the end of the season on pain of arrest. When hunters submit a request for their weapons, federal, state, and local checks would be made to establish that they had not been convicted of a violent crime since the last time they withdrew their weapons. In the process, arsenal staff would take at least a quick look at each hunter to try to affirm that he was not obviously unhinged.
It would have to be the case that the term "hunting weapon" did not include anti-tank ordnance, assault weapons, rocket-propelled grenade launchers, or other weapons of war.
All antique or interesting non-hunting weapons would be required to be delivered to a local or regional museum, also to be under strict 24-hour-a-day guard. There they would be on display, if the owner desired, as part of an interesting exhibit of antique American weapons, as family heirlooms from proud wars past or as part of collections.
Gun dealers could continue their work, selling hunting and antique firearms. They would be required to maintain very tight inventories. Any gun sold would be delivered immediately by the dealer to the nearest arsenal or the museum, not to the buyer.
The disarmament process would begin after the initial three-month amnesty. Special squads of police would be formed and trained to carry out the work. Then, on a random basis to permit no advance warning, city blocks and stretches of suburban and rural areas would be cordoned off and searches carried out in every business, dwelling, and empty building. All firearms would be seized. The owners of weapons found in the searches would be prosecuted: $1,000 and one year in prison for each firearm.
Clearly, since such sweeps could not take place all across the country at the same time. But fairly quickly there would begin to be gun-swept, gun-free areas where there should be no firearms. If there were, those carrying them would be subject to quick confiscation and prosecution. On the streets it would be a question of stop-and-search of anyone, even grandma with her walker, with the same penalties for "carrying."
The "gun lobby" would no doubt try to head off in the courts the new laws and the actions to implement them. They might succeed in doing so, although the new approach would undoubtedly prompt new, vigorous debate on the subject. In any case, some jurisdictions would undoubtedly take the opportunity of the chronic slowness of the courts to begin implementing the new approach.
America's long land and sea borders present another kind of problem. It is easy to imagine mega-gun dealerships installing themselves in Mexico, and perhaps in more remote parts of the Canadian border area, to funnel guns into the United States. That would constitute a problem for American immigration authorities and the U.S. Coast Guard, but not an insurmountable one over time.
There could conceivably also be a rash of score-settling during hunting season as people drew out their weapons, ostensibly to shoot squirrels and deer, and began eliminating various of their perceived two-footed enemies. Given the general nature of hunting weapons and the fact that such killings are frequently time-sensitive, that seems a lesser sort of issue.
That is my idea of how it could be done. The desire to do so on the part of the American people is another question altogether, but one clearly raised again by the Blacksburg tragedy.
Dan Simpson, a retired diplomat, is a member of the editorial boards of The Blade and Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.
04-27-07, 04:31 PM #2
"That is my idea of how it could be done."
And my idea is you have shit for brains.
We are the thin blue line
and all the money in the world.
And no you can't have any.
04-27-07, 04:44 PM #3
2nd Amendment, God they hate it!
04-27-07, 04:45 PM #4
can this guy be retired 6 feet under?http://www.allpoetry.com/Grunts%20Girl
We dallied under
Vine maples and sapling alders
Searched for lady slippers
Found blackberry riots and
An old skid road
Brought ghost ferns and
Hollows filled with
While waves wrapped
Intricate lacings of weeds
'Round mule spinners
His cyanotic eyes
Were hard enough to make
The sun turn tail and
Tender enough to attract me
To his world of illusion
04-27-07, 06:54 PM #5
I won't even dignify this idiot with a response. (Other than to call him an idiot). IDIOT!
"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."
- Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America
Tell me not, Sweet, I am unkind,
That from the nunnery
Of thy chaste breast and quiet mind
To war and arms I fly. - Lovelace
The opinions expressed by this poster are wholly his own, and should never be construed to even remotely be in representation of his employer, its agencies or assigns. In fact, they probably fail to be in alignment with the opinions of any rational human being.
04-27-07, 10:27 PM #6
This guy seems to come from a life of privilege and special exceptions for him. These elitists are the first to step on the necks of the citizens, and justify their needs as exceptions. The names of these types are: Feinstein, Kenedy, Clinton, Soros, etc. Totalitarian personalities just waiting for the chance to push their dogma into controlling every part of life. The Communnist Party of the USSR granted privileged status to the Party Nomenklatura "elite".
Obviously the Diplomat 101 course he took did not require History of the past century, or any exposure to Constitutiional Law. Such "sweeps" would not get much traction from those who took an oath to uphold the US Constitution, be they military or LEO. He would need his Kommissars behind the police/troops on these "sweeps" to compel their actions, or quickly replace them with more agreeable types. It's beyond 2nd Amendment it's the whole Bill of Rights to be violated. Police State means the police serve the State, take allegience to the Leader, not to the citizens and the nation.
It has occurred before: Norway's Quisling 1940, "Milice" in Nazi occupied France, Warsaw Ghetto "Jewish Police". Special police groups i.e. Soviet KGB/NKVD, Kempei Tai, and Himmler's SS/SD motivated these neighborhood "aktions" at gunpoint. It was common to use criminals, mercenaries, collaborators, traitors, informants, and unstable people to replace the ethical and humanitarian consciences in the established local police forces, after they said "NO" or didnt show up.Some people come into our lives and quickly go. Some stay for awhile and leave footprints on our hearts. And we are never, ever the same.-- Anonymous
Old People, like me, may not be around to witness the destruction of our Nation. The rest of you may not survive the collapse. We all have the sworn duty to prevent it.
The light of hope burns brighter than the fires of doom.
04-27-07, 10:38 PM #7
"Where are your travel papers???" followed by lengthy stays in 'detainment camps' for non-compliance would be next if this brain-dead closet nazi got his way.
04-27-07, 10:51 PM #8YEAH, IM THE BERRIES, AND CHERRIES IN YOUR REAR VIEW MIRROR.
Handle every stressful situation like a dog.
Eat it, Play with it, or piss on it, and walk away!
As smart as man is, we haven't been able to invent a machine that can smell drugs or tell us where a person has walked,” Dogs are sophisticated investigative tools!
04-28-07, 12:30 PM #9
AARRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!! How many fuc£ing times does it have to be said! Is the last common weapon used in a crime of violence a fuc£ing hunting rifle!! Or legally owned? Not the norm where I'm from. Get a fuc£ing brain!! Try a Lorcin or Highpoint. Or any other weapon in ease of reach. I wonder does he see any legislation for that. Better than that, he should try this! Be a cop for a few years not a diplomat! Fuc£ing moron. (Whew! I feel better now)Do not war for peace. If you must war, war for justice. For without justice there is no peace. -me
We are who we choose to be.
R.I.P. Arielle. 08/20/2010-09/16/2012
04-28-07, 01:23 PM #10
Come on lewisipso, don't hold emotions back, it's not good for you.
04-29-07, 09:17 PM #11
Please dont hold it against me that that appeared in the Pittsburgh Post gazette, commonly known as the PEOPLE Gazette. VERY liberal anti-police, anti-gun paper.A monday morning lunatic, disturbed from time to time. Temporary catatonic madman on occasion..
Lightning crashes a new mother cries, her placenta falls to the floor. The angel opens her eyes,the confusion sets in before the doctor can even close the door..
The views and comments of E-man are mine and mine alone and therefore might not reflect the views of others or people in my current department. As such since this is still America I can post what I want without fear of retribution. I think.
04-29-07, 09:28 PM #12
All I have to say is this...still an advocate of gun control?
This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future! -Adolph Hitler, 1935He who has the money, signs the cheques.
He who signs the cheques, makes the rules.
He who makes the rules, has the power.
He who has the power, has the money.
04-29-07, 09:34 PM #13
If that idiot wants another Civil War, that's the way to start it - Except this time the odds are a little lopsided:
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
04-29-07, 10:29 PM #14
I think I live in the wrong state.
Choose The Right. When you're doing whats right, then you have nothing to worry about.
Not a LEO
In memory of Sgt. Howard K. Stevenson 1965 - 2005. Ceres Police Dept.
In memory of Robert N. Panos 1955 - 2008 Ceres Police Dept.
04-29-07, 10:50 PM #15
(wtf is this guy really serious )
all i have to say is good luck gettin something like that done down here. they dont make a museum big enough to hold our guns."Be Polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet"
04-30-07, 12:20 AM #16
sing to the tune ''the battle of new orleans''
we fired our guns but the idiots kept a coming
there wasn't as many as there was before
we fire once more and they began a'running
come and try to take my guns.
"A strong man stands up for himself. A stronger man stands up for others."
The old sheriff was attending an awards dinner when a lady commented
on his wearing his sidearm. "Sheriff, I see you have your pistol. Are you
expecting trouble?" "No Ma'am. If I were expecting trouble, I would have
brought my rifle."
(just stole this one hope you don't mind)
The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant,
it is just that they know so much that isn't so.
President Ronald Reagan
04-30-07, 12:28 AM #17
Just some of my Anti Gun pics. Vote Democrat and Vote to loose your guns
04-30-07, 01:20 AM #18
An area being "gun free" is the reason why the Virginia tech situation was as bad as it was.
You see, most college's in America are "Gun Free." Meaning, its against univeristy policy for anyone whos not an on-duty police officer (Yes, ON DUTY. I know that Arizona State at least doens't even allow off duty officers to carry) is forbidded from having a gun. And of course, all law abiding citizens follow the policies.
But law abiding citizens arn't the problem, are they. Drugs are illegal, but it sure as hell doesn't keep drugs out of the hands of non-law abiding citizens.
So colleges are basically "easy victim" zones. Anyone who wants to rob or even kill someone can do so easily on a college campus, because they no the vast majority of the people there (IE Law abiding citizens) will not be armed. The can rob and kill without fear of people shooting back.
Lets now look at Virgian Tech. 32 people were killed. 32!!! The gunman even had time to kill, go drop off some mail, and kill again. Just ONE law abiding citizen in that classroom with a gun could have saved dozens of lives. That kid didn't have to worry about anyone shooting back, and no one did. Thats why he was able to kill 32 people.
So yeah, lets turn the entire country into the save "easy victim"
zones that colege campuses are.
Many of us here are cops. Tell me, really, when you do a traffic stop and the driver imediately tells you "Sir, I want you to know I have a loaded weapon in the car." Does that scare you? NO!!! it doesn't. Because thats a law abiding citizen. Hes the person I WANT to have a gun. Its the people who DON'T tell you the gun is there you have to be scared of.
Moral of the story. The bad guys will always get guns, whether they are legal or not. Just like they always get drugs. The OP article BS is just keeping guns out of the hands of people we WANT to have them.
Gun Free America = The Land of Victims. So where do you want to live?
On a quick PS, am i the only one who noticed that its ussual the same people who want to ban guns who always hate war. IE, the "give peace a chance" people. Whether it be counties or indvidul's why do so many people think lower your defenses and/or not defending yourself keeps you safe? Do they just have such little understanding of human nature, and that there will ALWAYS be people and/or countries out there who want to rob from you and kill you? No amount of peace or disarmement will change that? Eh, but I could do a whole other post of that, so I'll leave it there :P
04-30-07, 01:35 AM #19
In fact, just a few years before Va Tech, two off-duty cops that ere students at another Va college had to run to their cars & retreive their guns before arresting another shooter:
Death toll limited before campus gun ban
5 years ago, shooter subdued by armed students
Posted: April 22, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com
A deeply troubled and disgruntled foreign student runs afoul of college authorities.
He comes to the Virginia campus armed and starts shooting in one building.
But, unlike the massacre at Virginia Tech last week, the damage was contained in this incident that occurred five years ago, before the state legislature banned guns on college campuses.
On Jan. 16, 2002, Peter Odighizuwa, a 43-year-old student from Nigeria, walked into the Appalachian School of Law offices of Dean Anthony Sutin, 42, a former acting assistant U.S. attorney, and professor Thomas Blackwell, 41, and opened fire with a .380 ACP semi-automatic handgun – shooting them at close range.
Also killed in the same building was student Angela Denise Dales, 33. Three others were wounded.
As soon as the gunfire erupted, two students acting independently of one another, Tracy Bridges and Mikael Gross, ran to their vehicles to retrieve firearms. Gross, an off-duty police officer in his home state of North Carolina, got his 9mm pistol and body armor. Bridges got out his .357 Magnum.
Bridges and Gross went back to the building where the shots were heard and as Odighizuwa exited, they approached from different angles. Bridges yelled for him to drop his weapon and the shooter was subdued by several unarmed students.
Gross went back to his car and got handcuffs to detain the shooter until police arrived.
Most news reports of the incident failed to mention the presence of two armed students and their role in subduing the shooter, saying only that he was tackled by bystanders.
Odighizuwa was tried for the murders and sentenced to multiple life terms in prison.
Virginia Tech, like many of the nation's schools and college campuses, is a so-called "gun-free zone," which Second Amendment supporters say invites gun violence – especially from disturbed individuals seeking to kill as many victims as possible.
Foreign-born student Cho Seung-Hui murdered 32 and wounded another 15 before turning his gun on himself.
A year earlier, the Virginia legislature banned all guns on campus in the interest of safety.
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
04-30-07, 07:01 AM #20Banned
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