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  1. #1
    Terminator's Avatar
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    Canadians blame America for their new found violence problems...

    TORONTO - When a 15-year-old bystander was gunned down last month while holiday shopping on busy Yonge Street, it set off a wave of concern about the safety of citizens in this traditionally safest of cities.
    Toronto's gun-related homicides nearly doubled last year with 52 shooting deaths. A few miles to the south, Buffalo, a substantially smaller city, had 41 gun murders in 2005. And, the homicide rate of Canada's largest city still lags far behind comparable American cities, like Chicago and Houston.
    Yet, the crackle of gunfire has horrified residents of Toronto - a city of 2.5 million that prides itself on safe streets and good manners.
    With a national election scheduled for Monday, top Canadian politicians are pointing to the United States as the culprit for the city's eruption of gun violence.
    "The U.S. is exporting its problem of violence to the streets of Toronto," Toronto Mayor David Miller told reporters days after the Dec. 26 shooting.
    Ricardo McRae, a 36-year-old Web-based artist who lives in downtown Toronto, spoke about the cross-border differences last week as he dined at a Front Street restaurant near the CN Tower.
    "Canadians are appalled by crime, while for Americans, this is just a part of life and they're a lot more complacent," McRae said. "The foundation of the U.S. is based on fighting, guns and protecting yourself. The Canadian way of life is built on multiculturalism, acceptance and peace.
    "There's just a culture of guns and violence in the U.S.," he adds. "Even their national anthem talks about guns and bombs."
    That perception of a different tolerance for violence is widespread in Canada.
    "Toronto's just not used to this level of violence. We're just shocked," said Vanessa DiMaria, a 31-year-old teacher in Toronto, as she stood in front of the Eaton Centre, a mall in the hub of the downtown shopping district.
    "I agree that the States is to blame a little bit because the States allows you to bear arms a lot more."
    In the Boxing Day shooting, 10th-grader Jane Creba was killed and six others wounded when they were caught between rival teenage gangs firing into a crowd of shoppers near the Eaton Centre.
    The killing occurred in the middle of a national political campaign, and thus sparked politicians to intensify their backlash against America's gun exports.



    "Mindless violence'
    "Canadians deserve safe streets. Toronto isn't Detroit," Prime Minister Paul Martin was later quoted as saying. "Vancouver isn't South Central Los Angeles. We are not going to allow our cities to fall into mindless violence."
    As Canadians head to the ballot box Monday, gun control has become a key campaign platform for each of the major political parties.
    The Canadian choices include Martin, leader of the Liberal Party who is seeking re-election, Conservative Stephen Harper and New Democratic Party leader Jack Layton.
    The Liberals are proposing a complete ban on private handgun ownership, an idea criticized by the Conservatives, who argue that handguns are already severely restricted in Canada.
    "The Conservatives here, just like the ones in the U.S., are viewed as tougher on law and order, while the left-leaning Liberals are viewed as more focused on the root social causes," said Nelson Wiseman, a political science teacher at the University of Toronto. "It's like they're trying to outdo each other with their crime-fighting initiatives when the policies of these parties are not that much different."
    Some Canadians, though, say pointing the finger at America is unfair.
    "It's a copout, and it's a very cheap shot," said John Thompson, president of the Mackenzie Institute, a nonprofit think tank based in Toronto.
    "The U.S. is our biggest trading partner, chief ally and best friend, and it irritates Canadians that Martin's blaming America," he said.
    Staff Inspector Brian Raybould, head of the Toronto police homicide squad and a 36-year veteran of the Toronto police force, says 90 percent of the city's shooting deaths are gang-related and are mostly "young black men shooting young black men."
    But police estimate that half the guns confiscated in criminal investigations are from their southern neighbor. "When we trace a lot of these guns, they are typically from a U.S. manufacturer, sold to a U.S. gun shop and then sold to a person and then the gun pops up in Toronto," Raybould said.
    "Guns don't kill people, people kill people. But it's obvious that the American culture is one of firearms, and Canada's not like that."



    Culture shock
    Raybould said he experienced a major culture shock when he recently visited Quantico, Va. - which is home to a major Marine Corps base and the FBI Training Academy - and saw people walking around with guns in holsters.
    "People can't carry a handgun legally here unless you're a police officer, and all handguns are registered here," he said.
    The Canadian reluctance to embrace the gun culture draws mixed reaction from U.S. visitors.
    Last week, American couple Rick Lemcke and his wife, Lona, were walking along Toronto's Yonge Street after lunching at the Hard Rock Cafe. Rick Lemcke is a member of the National Rifle Association, a pistol permit holder and owns a collection of hunting guns.
    "I don't know if Canadians realize it, but gun ownership is a right they're giving up," said Rick Lemcke, 52, who is supervisor of Parma, a town in Monroe County near Rochester.
    "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will own guns."
    Despite the vast differences in murder statistics between the two countries, some community groups in Toronto are reaching out to their American neighbors to help clamp down on crime.
    Early this month, the Rev. Eugene Rivers, who inspired an effort that reduced Boston's skyrocketing homicides in the 1990s, spent three days in Toronto preaching a faith-based network of social programs - a combination of youth mentoring, church intervention and increased police presence. And the Guardian Angels, a New-York based civilian vigilante group visited Toronto last week with plans to patrol troubled neighborhoods.

  2. #2
    Lazy Fed's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Canada's drug policy sucks my balls

    Yea but go figure this has nothing at all to do with Canada's thriving narcotics business Well let's see what happens when you have rival gangs fighting over millions and millions of dollars in potential money from BC BUD.... I wonder what is going to happen. Many of theses gangs controlling the drug trade are violent organizations from over-seas. There are Sri-Lankans, Jamaicans, and Asian gang all fighting over the drug trade. Canada needs to wake the fuck up and see what kind of problems they are causing by there liberal ass policies.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by fscf3801
    Yea but go figure this has nothing at all to do with Canada's thriving narcotics business Well let's see what happens when you have rival gangs fighting over millions and millions of dollars in potential money from BC BUD.... I wonder what is going to happen. Many of theses gangs controlling the drug trade are violent organizations from over-seas. There are Sri-Lankans, Jamaicans, and Asian gang all fighting over the drug trade. Canada needs to wake the fuck up and see what kind of problems they are causing by there liberal ass policies.
    Thats what I was gonna say...Canada is just worried that the movie canadian bacon with john candy was a training video


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terminator
    Some Canadians, though, say pointing the finger at America is unfair.
    "It's a copout, and it's a very cheap shot," said John Thompson, president of the Mackenzie Institute, a nonprofit think tank based in Toronto.
    "The U.S. is our biggest trading partner, chief ally and best friend, and it irritates Canadians that Martin's blaming America," he said.

    At least someone gets it. Okay, I say we allow them to carry on their pitifully ignorant lives because losing the few like the above would just be too much for me to bare.
    "A nation, as a society, forms a moral person, and every member of it is personally responsible for his society."

    -Thomas Jefferson, 1792


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    Don't take this too seriously. It's election time and the liberals big strategy has been pointing the finger at the States and blaming them for everything from bad blood to gun crime.
    The Conservatives are about to be elected in and they are pro USA and will reverse a lot of the bullshit that has gone on previously. Most of the leaders will be from Alberta, a province with a great liking for the States.
    That said in Calgary where I work we had a gang banger from the 'tiny rascals' turn up making problems in town. Well that's what we get for making the best bud in town and I don't mean that piss you drink down South.

    Anyway let the politicians settle down and all will be back to normal.
    Now this is the Law of the Jungle -- as old and as true as the sky;
    And the Wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the Wolf that shall break it must die.
    As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk the Law runneth forward and back --
    For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is thePack

  6. #6
    MountainCop Guest
    Nah - they're just still pissed at the 'Blame Canada' song in the South Park movie...

  7. #7
    Wise_undergrad_08's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MountainCop
    Nah - they're just still pissed at the 'Blame Canada' song in the South Park movie...

    That movie rocked. The fact that you mentioned makes you my new official hero.
    "A nation, as a society, forms a moral person, and every member of it is personally responsible for his society."

    -Thomas Jefferson, 1792


    Cotton candy don't get wet until it's in your mouth.

  8. #8
    TXCharlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terminator
    Raybould said he experienced a major culture shock when he recently visited Quantico, Va. - which is home to a major Marine Corps base and the FBI Training Academy - and saw people walking around with guns in holsters.
    "People can't carry a handgun legally here unless you're a police officer, and all handguns are registered here," he said.
    Canada's military & LE recruits can't carry handguns? That seems awfully gay.

    Canada does have carry permits, if you're someone whom they deem to be "important enough" to be worthy of self-defense - If you're Joe Sixpack, you're not worthy to even own a handgun (pretty much the same as Washington, DC. & NYC I think, so we can't laugh at them too much till we fix our own Communist hotspots)
    Last edited by TXCharlie; 01-23-06 at 12:19 PM.

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  9. #9
    MountainCop Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Wise_undergrad_08
    That movie rocked. The fact that you mentioned makes you my new official hero.
    Awwww... thank you! That's worth some rep! Does it help that I know the words to 'Kyle's Mom'??

    And you would not believe how many out of town people reference that show/movie when I'm in uniform - especially since the area I patrol is near the South Park, Colorado area.

    The locals, however, never mention it...

    I just tell 'em that my wife really digs it because I'm the closest thing to Officer Barbrady she'll ever meet.

    "Move along, now. Nothing to see here..."

    'Oh, my God! They've killed Kenny!"
    "You Bastards!!"

    hee hee!


    Gotta love it!

  10. #10
    Virginian's Avatar
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    Pretty much every other nation blames the US for something. Just like we blame the Irish for our drinking problems

  11. #11
    MountainCop Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Virginian
    Pretty much every other nation blames the US for something. Just like we blame the Irish for our drinking problems
    Nah - but we do blame them for us liking a good fight!

  12. #12
    TXCharlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virginian
    Just like we blame the Irish for our drinking problems
    You mean that's not true?

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  13. #13
    brasco1033's Avatar
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    Canada's military & LE recruits can't carry handguns? That seems awfully gay

    Police officers in general can only carry when going to or from work. Thats in force orders where I work in Canada. I think that could be under some pressure to change, over the last weekend we had a dismembered body in a dumpster, a gang shooting / stabbing in a nightclub and a fatal stabbing in another club.
    Now this is the Law of the Jungle -- as old and as true as the sky;
    And the Wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the Wolf that shall break it must die.
    As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk the Law runneth forward and back --
    For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is thePack

  14. #14
    TXCharlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brasco1033
    Police officers in general can only carry when going to or from work
    Are they afraid you may revert to criminal behavior in your off-hours, or get drunk and shoot up the saloon like cowboys on "Gunsmoke"?

    Well if it makes you feel any better, those recruits that Raybould saw at Quantico may have had unloaded pistols, depending on what they were doing, but I wouldn't count on that if they were assigned to guard duty or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by brasco1033
    The Conservatives are about to be elected in and they are pro USA and will reverse a lot of the bullshit that has gone on previously
    I hear that the Conservatives won, is that right? Yeaaaa!!!
    Last edited by TXCharlie; 01-24-06 at 01:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fscf3801
    Yea but go figure this has nothing at all to do with Canada's thriving narcotics business Well let's see what happens when you have rival gangs fighting over millions and millions of dollars in potential money from BC BUD.... I wonder what is going to happen. Many of theses gangs controlling the drug trade are violent organizations from over-seas. There are Sri-Lankans, Jamaicans, and Asian gang all fighting over the drug trade. Canada needs to wake the fuck up and see what kind of problems they are causing by there liberal ass policies.
    or the terrorist coming in here through Canadas weak border security

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACMAN
    or the terrorist coming in here through Canadas weak border security
    Examples please. I can recall the guy through BC who was going to blow up the LA port but can't recall any others. In revenge you are exporting gang members so fair is fair.
    Now this is the Law of the Jungle -- as old and as true as the sky;
    And the Wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the Wolf that shall break it must die.
    As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk the Law runneth forward and back --
    For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is thePack

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    Yeah the Conservatives won but with a minority government. Amazing that after all the corruption and pissing about from the liberals people still vote for them. The process is pretty screwed by the whole Quebec thing. They have a seperatisit party that takes about 50 seats but has little interest in the rest of Canada. This means that most governments will be minority with all the horse trading that entails.
    Now this is the Law of the Jungle -- as old and as true as the sky;
    And the Wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the Wolf that shall break it must die.
    As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk the Law runneth forward and back --
    For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is thePack

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=TXCharlie]Are they afraid you may revert to criminal behavior in your off-hours, or get drunk and shoot up the saloon like cowboys on "Gunsmoke"?

    Man that's rich coming from the lone star state
    Now this is the Law of the Jungle -- as old and as true as the sky;
    And the Wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the Wolf that shall break it must die.
    As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk the Law runneth forward and back --
    For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is thePack

  19. #19
    TXCharlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brasco1033
    Man that's rich coming from the lone star state
    We only do that on Saturday night when the Marshall isn't in town... Or in Deep Ellum anytime
    .

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