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  1. #1
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    Post Police Deaths Up Sharply

    Police deaths up sharply
    Officials blame more violent criminals with deadlier guns after lapse of ban


    Police officials and law enforcement groups Thursday blamed a sharp increase in the number of law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty on more violent criminals who have access to deadlier weapons.

    Statistics released Thursday showed that 101 local and federal law enforcement officers died on duty in the first half of the year, 31 more than had died at the same time last year. It was the first time in three decades that the toll had reached more than 100.

    “Every assignment that a police officer is on is potentially life-threatening,” said Craig Floyd, chairman of the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, a nonprofit group that compiled the statistics with the police advocacy group Concerns of Police Survivors. “And unfortunately, for the first six months of this year, it’s been particularly deadly for our police officers.”

    Floyd called the statistics “very alarming” and “somewhat puzzling, quite honestly, because over the last 30 years we’ve seen a downward trend in the number of officers’ being shot.”

    The memorial fund annually releases the half-year study, which NBC News justice correspondent Pete Williams said was considered highly reliable by law enforcement agencies.

    Nearly half of the officers died in fatal traffic-related incidents, but 39 of them were shot to death, a 44 percent rise over the number shot to death by the same point last year. Floyd tied that increase to a rising number of officers on the street responding to more violent crimes, many of them domestic disturbances.

    “Often, alcohol or drugs are involved, and a high rate of emotion is involved,” Floyd said in an interview with MSNBC. “It’s a very volatile situation. A police officer responds trying to keep the peace, and oftentimes they become the targets of this violence themselves.”

    Lapse of assault weapons ban cited
    Local and federal law enforcement officials told NBC News that criminals were more likely to use high-powered semiautomatic pistols and handguns today.

    Some of those weapons, like the widely feared Intratec Tec-9, were banned until 2004, but they became legal when Congress refused to extend the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, even though President Bush, an opponent of gun control, promised to sign an extension.

    Semiautomatic firearms — including the previously banned assault-style guns often misleadingly equated with “assault weapons,” which remain illegal — boast higher-capacity magazines than standard revolvers, and their trigger mechanisms allow users to fire off more rounds in a shorter period of time.

    The study did not examine how many of the police officers killed this year were shot with weapons that were legalized three years ago, but the study and figures compiled by the federal Bureau of Justice Statistics suggest a statistical correlation.

    The 39 officers killed in the first half of 2007 exceeds the 36 officers shot to death in all of 2004, the last year the ban was in effect. More broadly, firearm-related crime rose in 2005, the first year after the semiautomatic weapons became legal again, after having declined every year since the ban took effect in 1994.

    “We’ve always had lots of guns,” said Charlotte-Mecklenburg, N.C., Police Chief Darrel Stephens, president of the Major Cities Police Chiefs Association. None of the department’s officers were killed by gunfire last year, but six have been gunned down since Jan. 1.

    “What we’ve seen is people shifting from revolvers to automatic weapons,” Stephens said. “Rather than six shots or five, they have 14 or 20.”

    Floyd said police countermeasures had not yet caught up to the increased firepower of criminals on the street.

    “Bullet-resistant vests are designed to stop normal handgun ammunition,” he said. “Criminals are getting their hands on high-powered assault weapons, and those weapons pose a great danger to police because their soft-body armor won’t protect them, in most cases.”

    Semiautomatics used against officers
    All but one of the 101 officers who died in the line of duty were men. They averaged 37 years of age and had just more than 10 years of experience. After traffic-related incidents and gunfire, a small number of other deaths were attributed to work-related illnesses, drownings and miscellaneous other incidents.

    Texas, with 13, had the most officers killed in the first half of the year, the report showed. North Carolina had eight, and New York had six. Ten of the officers were members of various federal law enforcement agencies.

    Semiautomatic weapons have been implicated in several recent shooting deaths of law officers.

    The report was released a day after hundreds of people gathered in Brooklyn to mourn the death of Russell Timoshenko, 23, a New York police officer who died Saturday after he was shot while making a routine traffic stop last week. A 24-round semiautomatic pistol was found in the stolen car Timoshenko had stopped, police said.

    In May, an officer was shot and killed in a confrontation with a man at a church in Moscow, Idaho; investigators found shell casings fired from two semiautomatic weapons. Baltimore police said one of their officers was shot and killed in January with a stolen semiautomatic gun.

    Salt Lake City Police Chief Chris Burbank said stricter gun control laws were needed.

    “We need to work at the front end and make sure we do all we can to extend the number of illegal guns,” Burbank said in an intervew with MSNBC.

    “A person who’s willing to commit some sort of aggravated crime with a firearm is certainly willing to be involved with a police officer using that same firearm,” he said. “So we’re seeing some very tragic incidents where people that have really no reason to have a firearm at their disposal ... now have firearms in their hands again, and they’re using them in some very violent acts.”

    The National Rifle Association has opposed reinstating the 1994 ban, pointing to a 2003 study by the Congressional Research Service that found that the average number of rounds fired in crimes involving firearms like those covered by the measure was lower than in those using revolvers. Wounds were also less likely to be fatal than those involving revolvers, the study found.

    “The guns that [the 1994 measure] temporarily banned — very widely used for target shooting, hunting and home protection — are still used in only a small percentage of crime,” the association’s Institute for Legislative Action said in a statement.

    Police deaths All causes
    Jan. 1-June 30, 2007


    Texas 13
    Federal 10
    North Carolina 8
    New York 6
    Florida 5
    Georgia 5
    South Carolina 5
    California 4
    Louisiana 4
    Maryland 4
    New Jersey 3
    Alabama 2
    Arizona 2
    Hawaii 2
    Indiana 2
    Kentucky 2
    Missouri 2
    Ohio 2
    Arkansas 1
    Colorado 1
    District of Columbia 1
    Iowa 1
    Idaho 1
    Kansas 1
    Massachusetts 1
    Michigan 1
    New Hampshire 1
    Oregon 1
    Puerto Rico 1
    Tennessee 1
    U.S. Virgin Islands 1
    Utah 1
    Virginia 1
    Washington 1
    Wisconsin 1
    West Virginia 1

    NBC’s Pete Williams and MSNBC’s Peter Alexander and Chris Jansing contributed to this report.
    URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19853442/
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    There are so many things wrong with that article, I don't know where to begin. A lot of stupid statements by either people that should know better or p!sspoor writing by the reporters.

    But, the bottom line is, it is definitely not shaping up to be a good year for LEOs. Every one needs to be extra careful out there.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by CT209 View Post
    There are so many things wrong with that article, I don't know where to begin. A lot of stupid statements by either people that should know better or p!sspoor writing by the reporters.

    But, the bottom line is, it is definitely not shaping up to be a good year for LEOs. Every one needs to be extra careful out there.
    I tottally agree CT
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    phantasm is offline Corporal
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    revolving door courts, and perps no longer "fearing" the police or punishment.

    Plus the crack war perps getting released.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sexy View Post
    Police officials and law enforcement groups Thursday blamed a sharp increase in the number of law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty on more violent criminals who have access to deadlier weapons.


    Lapse of assault weapons ban cited
    Local and federal law enforcement officials told NBC News that criminals were more likely to use high-powered semiautomatic pistols and handguns today.


    “We’ve always had lots of guns,” said Charlotte-Mecklenburg, N.C., Police Chief Darrel Stephens, president of the Major Cities Police Chiefs Association. None of the department’s officers were killed by gunfire last year, but six have been gunned down since Jan. 1.

    “What we’ve seen is people shifting from revolvers to automatic weapons,” Stephens said. “Rather than six shots or five, they have 14 or 20.”

    Floyd said police countermeasures had not yet caught up to the increased firepower of criminals on the street.

    “Bullet-resistant vests are designed to stop normal handgun ammunition,” he said. “Criminals are getting their hands on high-powered assault weapons, and those weapons pose a great danger to police because their soft-body armor won’t protect them, in most cases.”

    Salt Lake City Police Chief Chris Burbank said stricter gun control laws were needed.

    “We need to work at the front end and make sure we do all we can to extend the number of illegal guns,” Burbank said in an intervew with MSNBC.

    “A person who’s willing to commit some sort of aggravated crime with a firearm is certainly willing to be involved with a police officer using that same firearm,” he said. “So we’re seeing some very tragic incidents where people that have really no reason to have a firearm at their disposal ... now have firearms in their hands again, and they’re using them in some very violent acts.”

    URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19853442/
    So why do these "law enforcement officials" disagree so much with the rank and file with regards to whether to blame police deaths on the increasing availability of assault weapons?

  6. #6
    conalabu is offline Grasshopper
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna View Post
    So why do these "law enforcement officials" disagree so much with the rank and file with regards to whether to blame police deaths on the increasing availability of assault weapons?
    Its like any other set of statistics, Jenna. You want the numbers to show a certain thing, you only go to certain people to ask questions. In any organization there are going to be nay sayers. The reality of things is if someone is going to shoot at the police, they aren't really going to care what they are shooting with. The favored weapon in my area is "gauges" which is how they refer to shotguns. The cut the barrel off (which is against federal law) and stick it down their pants. Changing the assault gun ban is not going to change shit around here. That being said, I did just pull an Ak-47 out of the back of an SUV last week and that gave the shivers.
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  7. #7
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    Dumb shit #1:
    The study did not examine how many of the police officers killed this year were shot with weapons that were legalized three years ago, but the study and figures compiled by the federal Bureau of Justice Statistics suggest a statistical correlation.
    I can suggest that yellow cars have more wrecks than white cars, and probably find some statistics to support that, but it would still be a dumb statement unless I actually COUNTED them!!!


    Dumb shit #2:
    They keep bringing up weapons like the Tec-9 or AK-47 in articles like that, but there's NOTHING special about those semi-autos versus other semi-auto pistols and rifles.

    They do shit like that because gullible people associate the legalized semi-auto versions with the still-illegal full-auto versions.

    The other thing they keep talking about are the cheap semi-auto rifles like the SKS, which I don't think even have a full auto version, but they cite it because the SKS is cheap and a military weapon, using the same cartridge as an AK - Well, a used semi-auto .308 0r 30.06 sporting rifle can be bought for not much more money than an SKS, and those are much more powerful.

    Dumb shit #3:
    Hi-capacity magazines were readily available BEFORE, AFTER, and DURING the ban on hi-capacity magazines, because the ban was only on the manufacture, not the sale or posession - Warehouses never even sold out of hi-caps during the Clinton gun ban.

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  8. #8
    CT209's Avatar
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    Police deaths up sharply in first half of year

    Officials blame more violent criminals with deadlier guns after lapse of ban

    By Alex Johnson
    Reporter
    MSNBC
    Updated: 4:54 p.m. ET July 19, 2007

    Police officials and law enforcement groups Thursday blamed a sharp increase in the number of law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty on more violent criminals who have access to deadlier weapons.

    [First off, those guns were banned, but still around due to prior ownership. The sunset of the ban had nothing to do with them being used in crimes now. Secondly, these guys are political hacks- Police Officials (mark them down as “politicians”). They follow whatever agenda their sponsors follow. If a Police Chief is hired by an anti-gun mayor, he becomes a talking head for the mayor. His interests aren’t in presenting logic; his interests become retaining his job so he parrots the party line.

    Law Enforcement Groups? Think “Police Chiefs Association” and apply the statement above. The funny thing about those groups is that they are frequently just as wrong when it comes to enacting anything that would be an actual police enhancement as when it comes to anything firearm-related. For instance, they were the same groups that were against HR 218]


    Statistics released Thursday showed that 101 local and federal law enforcement officers died on duty in the first half of the year, 31 more than had died at the same time last year. It was the first time in three decades that the toll had reached more than 100.

    “Every assignment that a police officer is on is potentially life-threatening,” said Craig Floyd, chairman of the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, a nonprofit group that compiled the statistics with the police advocacy group Concerns of Police Survivors. “And unfortunately, for the first six months of this year, it’s been particularly deadly for our police officers.”

    Floyd called the statistics “very alarming” and “somewhat puzzling, quite honestly, because over the last 30 years we’ve seen a downward trend in the number of officers’ being shot.”

    The memorial fund annually releases the half-year study, which NBC News justice correspondent Pete Williams said was considered highly reliable by law enforcement agencies.


    Nearly half of the officers died in fatal traffic-related incidents, but 39 of them were shot to death, a 44 percent rise over the number shot to death by the same point last year. Floyd tied that increase to a rising number of officers on the street responding to more violent crimes, many of them domestic disturbances.

    “Often, alcohol or drugs are involved, and a high rate of emotion is involved,” Floyd said in an interview with MSNBC. “It’s a very volatile situation. A police officer responds trying to keep the peace, and oftentimes they become the targets of this violence themselves.”

    Lapse of assault weapons ban cited

    Local and federal law enforcement officials told NBC News that criminals were more likely to use high-powered semiautomatic pistols and handguns today.

    [What exactly is a high-powered semi-auto pistol- is it something that just got manufactured since the ban sunset? How many high-powered semi-auto pistols are used in police shootings???]


    Some of those weapons, like the widely feared Intratec Tec-9 [ ], were banned until 2004, but they became legal when Congress refused to extend the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, even though President Bush, an opponent of gun control, promised to sign an extension.

    Semiautomatic firearms — including the previously banned assault-style guns often misleadingly equated with “assault weapons,” which remain illegal — boast higher-capacity magazines than standard revolvers, and their trigger mechanisms allow users to fire off more rounds in a shorter period of time.

    [At least this statement is partially credible]


    The study did not examine how many of the police officers killed this year were shot with weapons that were legalized three years ago, but the study and figures compiled by the federal Bureau of Justice Statistics suggest a statistical correlation.

    [D’oh- that’s because the numbers won’t show a marked increase in that. No one that publishes a study designed to further their agenda will counter their claims with facts that negate their argument. Why won’t there be an increase in the formerly banned guns use in crime? Because the guns didn’t go away during the ban. There wasn’t a magical period when those guns didn’t exist. There were still plenty of them out there.]

    The 39 officers killed in the first half of 2007 exceeds the 36 officers shot to death in all of 2004, the last year the ban was in effect. More broadly, firearm-related crime rose in 2005, the first year after the semiautomatic weapons became legal again, after having declined every year since the ban took effect in 1994.

    “We’ve always had lots of guns,” said Charlotte-Mecklenburg, N.C., Police Chief Darrel Stephens, president of the Major Cities Police Chiefs Association. None of the department’s officers were killed by gunfire last year, but six have been gunned down since Jan. 1.

    “What we’ve seen is people shifting from revolvers to automatic weapons,” Stephens said. “Rather than six shots or five, they have 14 or 20.”

    Floyd said police countermeasures had not yet caught up to the increased firepower of criminals on the street.

    “Bullet-resistant vests are designed to stop normal handgun ammunition,” he said. “Criminals are getting their hands on high-powered assault weapons, and those weapons pose a great danger to police because their soft-body armor won’t protect them, in most cases.”

    [If the criminals are using assault weapons, then they are breaking many laws already on the books.]

    Semiautomatics used against officers

    All but one of the 101 officers who died in the line of duty were men. They averaged 37 years of age and had just more than 10 years of experience. After traffic-related incidents and gunfire, a small number of other deaths were attributed to work-related illnesses, drownings and miscellaneous other incidents.

    Texas, with 13, had the most officers killed in the first half of the year, the report showed. North Carolina had eight, and New York had six. Ten of the officers were members of various federal law enforcement agencies.
    Semiautomatic weapons have been implicated in several recent shooting deaths of law officers.

    The report was released a day after hundreds of people gathered in Brooklyn to mourn the death of Russell Timoshenko, 23, a New York police officer who died Saturday after he was shot while making a routine traffic stop last week. A 24-round semiautomatic pistol was found in the stolen car Timoshenko had stopped, police said.

    In May, an officer was shot and killed in a confrontation with a man at a church in Moscow, Idaho; investigators found shell casings fired from two semiautomatic weapons. Baltimore police said one of their officers was shot and killed in January with a stolen semiautomatic gun.

    Salt Lake City Police Chief Chris Burbank said stricter gun control laws were needed.

    [Uh, hey Chief- Take some time to actually read the statutes currently on the books. You’re a Police Chief- you should be aware there are more than enough gun laws already in place. I’ve got a novel idea- try forcing the courts to actually do something to the career criminals who are the worst offenders of gun use.]

    “We need to work at the front end and make sure we do all we can to extend the number of illegal guns,” Burbank said in an intervew with MSNBC.

    “A person who’s willing to commit some sort of aggravated crime with a firearm is certainly willing to be involved with a police officer using that same firearm,” he said. “So we’re seeing some very tragic incidents where people that have really no reason to have a firearm at their disposal ... now have firearms in their hands again, and they’re using them in some very violent acts.”

    The National Rifle Association has opposed reinstating the 1994 ban, pointing to a 2003 study by the Congressional Research Service that found that the average number of rounds fired in crimes involving firearms like those covered by the measure was lower than in those using revolvers. Wounds were also less likely to be fatal than those involving revolvers, the study found.

    “The guns that [the 1994 measure] temporarily banned — very widely used for target shooting, hunting and home protection — are still used in only a small percentage of crime,” the association’s Institute for Legislative Action said in a statement.

    NBC’s Pete Williams and MSNBC’s Peter Alexander and Chris Jansing contributed to this report.

    Lock up the criminals. You have the laws available. I bet that will decrease the shootings. Letting them out time and time again so they can continue committing crimes isn't working. Many LEOs are shot by convicted felons who have little to lose. Maybe that's what we need to address. Regardless of what their mothers say, they aren't "good kids who are just starting to get their lives togethor. They are criminals. Most of them will be criminals until they are killed by another criminal or the police- then they’ll be DEAD CRIMINALS. Or until they finally commit a crime so horrible, they are locked up once and for all. Of course all of the victims they left in their wake from previous crimes are ignored.
    "When a crime is committed, liberals blame society. Conservatives blame the criminal." -Debra Saunders

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  9. #9
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    What a complete lapse of simple human common sense. The bullsh!t in these claims is so deep, its incredible. We have plumbed the abyss of liberal ignorance this time...

    FBI statistics on law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty tell it all, yet these nutcases absolutely refuse to recognize objective statistics. Illegally-obtained and possessed handguns are the copkiller weapons of choice statistically, of those, the most-often used calibres are equal to or UNDER 9mm.

    Making more guns illegal will not decrease the number of such incidents. It will simply add to the numbers of weapons possessed illegally (by those with the desire to continue to possess them, namely the CRIMINALS).

    Think of it this way... if I possess the predatory mind capable of killing a human being (any human being), is a misdemeanor charge of carrying a firearm concealed going to be enough of a deterrent to prevent me from doing so? Is a felony charge of possessing a firearm as a person convicted of certain prior felony offenses going to prevent me from doing so? Certainly not... So how could we reasonably believe that making more TYPES of weapons illegal will somehow reduce the workings of the predatory mind and prevent violence from occurring WHEN EXISTING CRIME IS ALREADY PREDOMINANTLY OCCURRING WITH ILLEGALLY CARRIED AND POSSESSED WEAPONS?

    Making something else criminal increases the number of criminals, it does not reduce the rate of crime. Reduction in the rate of crime is only accomplished by stricter enforcement (of existing laws), heavier penalties (for violent offenses), and reductions in criminal recidivism.

    Overcrowding be damned, "human dignity" of violent offenders be damned, and "clean-up" deals with violent offenders be damned. The protection of the people from crime is one of the most fundamental functions of a government, yet for some reason, beaurocratic bullshit continues to rampantly hamper justice. These ignorant liberal votewhores stand on their pulpits screaming "more laws, more laws", yet they willfully allow offenders to violate existing statutes with impunity, and castigate those who attempt to enforce the laws that they have already created...

    WAKE THE ^#&(@ UP, AMERICA!

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  10. #10
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    You guys have a seriously dangerous job over there. You have my utmost respect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojan 42 View Post
    You guys have a seriously dangerous job over there. You have my utmost respect.
    There are a lot of guns around, but at least we also have guns. You guys across the pond have a much harder job than we do.

    I often look at the different ways various LEOs do their job. Unarmed LEOs always top my list as an extremely risky job, followed by State Troopers (at least around here) and some of the Deputy Sheriffs who may not have a back-up very close.
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  12. #12
    Trojan 42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CT209 View Post
    There are a lot of guns around, but at least we also have guns. You guys across the pond have a much harder job than we do.

    But we've only had 160+ officers murdered since 1900 and you are 100+ this year already.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojan 42 View Post
    But we've only had 160+ officers murdered since 1900 and you are 100+ this year already.
    Ours aren't just murdered, ours are all LOD deaths. Those also include traffic accidents, medical problems incurred while on duty, fires, etc. I suspect that when that is taken into consideration, as well as the difference in population, then numbers start to even out.
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