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Thread: Another Church shooting...
08-12-07, 08:06 PM #1
Another Church shooting...
Have reservations about packing your sidearm in church?
NEOSHO, Mo. - A gunman opened fire in the sanctuary of a southwest Missouri church Sunday, killing three people and wounding several others, a city spokeswoman said.
About 25 to 50 people were briefly held hostage at the First Congregational Church until the gunman surrendered, Neosho spokeswoman Desiree Bridges said.
Fewer than 10 people were also shot and wounded, Bridges said.
The shooter was being held at the Newton County Jail, but police were not releasing any information about him.
Bridges said he was related to someone in the church, but declined to elaborate.
Bridges said the shooter had three firearms, but wouldn't say what type. The shooting followed the 1 p.m. service.
"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."
- Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America
Tell me not, Sweet, I am unkind,
That from the nunnery
Of thy chaste breast and quiet mind
To war and arms I fly. - Lovelace
The opinions expressed by this poster are wholly his own, and should never be construed to even remotely be in representation of his employer, its agencies or assigns. In fact, they probably fail to be in alignment with the opinions of any rational human being.
08-12-07, 08:14 PM #2
domestic written all over it...
if i went to church i would be armed.
I dont think god would mind... even though i have never asked...
but i have some weird vision that i would burn up like the wicked withc of the west if he didnt like the idea
really sad this had to happenhttp://www.allpoetry.com/Grunts%20Girl
We dallied under
Vine maples and sapling alders
Searched for lady slippers
Found blackberry riots and
An old skid road
Brought ghost ferns and
Hollows filled with
While waves wrapped
Intricate lacings of weeds
'Round mule spinners
His cyanotic eyes
Were hard enough to make
The sun turn tail and
Tender enough to attract me
To his world of illusion
08-12-07, 08:16 PM #3Corporal
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An excerpt from On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs:
For example, many officers carry their weapons in church. They are well concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or inside-the-belt holsters tucked into the small of their backs.? Anytime you go to some form of religious service, there is a very good chance that a police officer in your congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is such an individual in your place of worship, until the wolf appears to massacre you and your loved ones.
I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do was throw himself on the boy's body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the eye and said, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?"
Some individuals would be horrified if they knew this police officer was carrying a weapon in church. They might call him paranoid and would probably scorn him. Yet these same individuals would be enraged and would call for "heads to roll" if they found out that the airbags in their cars were defective, or that the fire extinguisher and fire sprinklers in their kids' school did not work. They can accept the fact that fires and traffic accidents can happen and that there must be safeguards against them.
08-12-07, 09:09 PM #4
Yeah, Fort Worth had like 8 or 9 people killed in Wedgewood Baptist Church back in the late 1990's. Since then, I know of one church where several of the deacons are armed.
It used to be that churches were off-limits to CHL holders, but as a result of the shooting, Texas now allows CHL holders to carry unless the church posts a big ugly 30.06 sign (citing paragraph 30.06 in the penal code verbatum, of a large minimum font size) - just a "no guns allowed" sign doesn't cut it anywhere. I think it's great that they require that big ugly sign, which hardly any church or business wants to post
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08-12-07, 09:18 PM #5
I usually have a weapon in the bathroom. Just in case.Do not war for peace. If you must war, war for justice. For without justice there is no peace. -me
We are who we choose to be.
R.I.P. Arielle. 08/20/2010-09/16/2012
08-12-07, 09:19 PM #6-=Twan007
Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.
The opinions expressed by this poster are wholly his own, and should never be construed to even remotely be in alignment with his employer. Matter of fact, the poster will deny any knowledge of any post... this message will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
08-13-07, 03:09 AM #7
that is i keep telling the wife to leave me alone about about carrying at church.
"A strong man stands up for himself. A stronger man stands up for others."
The old sheriff was attending an awards dinner when a lady commented
on his wearing his sidearm. "Sheriff, I see you have your pistol. Are you
expecting trouble?" "No Ma'am. If I were expecting trouble, I would have
brought my rifle."
(just stole this one hope you don't mind)
The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant,
it is just that they know so much that isn't so.
President Ronald Reagan
08-13-07, 03:40 AM #8
I am one of two associate ministers at my church and I admit that I do not carry in church most of the time, however that is about to change. My pastor trusts me that I would do what is proper. The sad reason that I do not always carry is based on comfort. The cut of some of my suits do not allow for effective concealment. I'm trying to correct this by finding a good ankle holster to use. I know that a lot of members would freak if they knew I had my sidearm with me.
08-13-07, 05:23 AM #9
08-13-07, 08:44 AM #10
Another gun free zone.
08-13-07, 10:43 AM #11
I don't go to church but, if I did, I don't think I'd care if off duty officers carried. Frankly, I don't mind trained indivduals carrying pretty much anywhere. I've been around guns most of my life, and the site of them doesn't bother me at all. I don't want the responsibility of owning one myself, but I'm perfectly happy for people who are willing to be trained and responsible to carry them.
Now, all that being said, it wasn't until I was in my 20s and away at college that I realized that it WASN'T normal behavior to resort to firearms in domestic disputes. I thought that was what everyone did.
You can take the girl out of Texas, but you can't take the Texas out of the girl.
08-13-07, 05:00 PM #12
I had my gun with me at a wedding on Saturday.
And when I make it to church (work schedule permitting) I always carry.
Actually...I pretty much carry everywhere.No one has greater love than this, to lay down ones life for ones friends - John 15:13
"The Wicked Flee When No Man Pursueth: But The Righteous Are Bold As A Lion".
We lucky few, we band of brothers. For he who today sheds his blood with me shall be my brother.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~The opinions, beliefs, and ideas expressed in this post are mine, and mine alone. They are NOT the opinions, beliefs, ideas, or policies of my Agency, Police Chief, City Council, or any member of my department.
08-15-07, 02:52 PM #13CorporalVerified LEO
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I know of at least 3 other city cops that go to my church at one time or another.
08-15-07, 10:43 PM #14
I have taken mine to church the few times I have been.
Some family thinks its rediculous but I have been to locations only to have a shooting happen after I left. I missed a multiple shooting here in San Antonio by 20 hours (Dennys on Loop 410), a shooting at the Johnson Space Center in Houston by a couple days and a convenience store robbery by a few hours.
I dread the day when it catches up with me but I want to be carrying in case I need to use it. It only takes 1 time that you are not prepared to haunt you forever or cause you a tragic loss.
It is the least I can do for my family.
BTW Col Grossman puts out some good literature.I don't like repeat offenders I like DEAD offenders-
Make the world a better place....punch a hippie in the face!
Former member of Cortinian Liberation Front and the JSA MACHATOC.
08-15-07, 11:05 PM #15
i usually dont carry anywhere...its rare that do. so in light of all this, i would still not carry to church.in the warriors code there's no surrender, though his body says stop, his spirit cries...NEVER. deep in our souls, a quiet ember, knows its you against you, its the paradox that drives us all. its a battle of wills, in the heat of attack, its the passion that kills, and victory is yours alone.
the posts and opinions stated by me do not in any way reflect the values, beliefs, or views of my department. they are simply opinions and/or observations which have been developed through my personal experiences. hell, most of the stories probably arent even true...wink wink
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