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  1. #1
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    Thumbs down UK police force now teaching police k-9's to headbutt instead of bite due to fear of infringing on criminal's human rights

    You really couldn't make it up... a Welsh police force is training its dogs to headbutt criminals rather than bite them, because politically correct - 'PC' - bosses are afraid that allowing the dogs to bite criminals will infringe their human rights!

    The policy, devised by North Wales Police, comes as a result of increased compensation claims from members of the public who have been bitten by police dogs.

    Officers say the toothless tactic provides a safer way to tackle uncooperative offenders, and dog squads may soon adopt it across the country. But critics say it is another example of political correctness gone mad - putting the rights and safety of criminals before cutting crime and protecting the public.

    Rather than biting suspects, the dogs have instead been trained to disable their targets by leaping at them and delivering a flying 'head-butt'.
    The scheme is being pioneered by North Wales police, which is headed by controversial chief Richard Brunstrom, using the Belgian Shepherd Malinois, which are fast becoming the police dogs of choice in the UK, as they are smaller, more agile and stronger than the traditional German Shepherd.
    Under the scheme, the dogs would be muzzled to prevent them from biting. To protect the animals, a metal rod across the front of the muzzle helps absorb the impact of the strike.

    'Instead of biting, the dog is muzzled and launches itself like a missile at the midriff of the target,' said Deputy Chief Constable of North Wales, Clive Wolfendale.

    'It is one of the additional options open to us to muzzle our dogs and get them to use a head butt,' added Sgt Ian Massie. 'We believe it is a safer option for an offender to be head-butted.'

    The scheme was launched after the Association of Chief Police Officers published a paper for dog handlers on human rights. In it, police dog handlers in a position where they are considering setting their dog after a suspect should ask are told to ask themselves: ‘Are there human rights issues involved in what I am about to do?’

    But retired dog handler John Barrett, who served for 18 years with the Metropolitan Police, is critical of the new tactic and said: 'This sounds like political correctness. It is very strange - I think the public would laugh at you with a muzzled dog, and it could be counterproductive if people think the dog has to be muzzled because it is dangerous.'

    The move comes after a surge in compensation claims from bite victims - including officers. One of the UK's biggest police forces, Greater Manchester paid out £59,000 in compensation in five years.
    But alleged wrongdoers are warned - the dogs have a powerful butt, especially after a long run-up.

    The force's Dog Section Manager Sergeant Gareth Crow, who pioneered the technique, says the flying Malinois head-charge is the equivalent of a baton blow if the dog has a full run-up. Apparently, the technique has been deemed so successful that muzzled dogs are also being used for crowd control at football games. Sgt Crowe said: "People may think a muzzled dog can't do anything but they are caught out by the power and speed of the tactic.

    'For me, it is a high-level use of force to physically bite a person. We've now got a continuum of force that gives us another tactical option to deploy the dog.

    'The 'conflict management model' of policing says that any force must be reasonable under the circumstances. It is clearly to gain control, prevent injury to the officer or others, and prevent damage to property.'

    Sgt Crow did not say, however, how the dogs would manage to headbutt a suspect in the stomach when they were running away from them and would thus have their backs to the dogs. A headbutt into the suspects’ lumbar region would surely cause greater injury and lead to further compensation claims.

    North Wales Police Chief Constable Richard Brunstrom earlier this year faced criticism from within his own ranks for plans to award his officers points for making arrests or handing out fines. Under the scheme, they could receive twice as many for seizing an abandoned car as for making an arrest.

    Mr Brunstrom, the Government's adviser on road safety and speed cameras, has earned himself the nickname the 'Mad Mullah of the Traffic Taliban'.

    In 2003, he called for the number of cameras to be trebled and the following year admitted getting officers to 'hide behind road signs and walls' with handheld devices.

    His force has also been criticised for its appalling burglary clear up rate and for launching costly inquiries into alleged anti-Welsh comments by Tony Blair and Anne Robinson.

  2. #2
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    Why has the whole western world gone PC crazy?? Why are we letting all the asswipe criminals win?? Help me understand!

  3. #3
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    Eye roll...

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    Ridiculous.


    That will backfire more than it will work. The bitework is based off of prey drive for the most part. The dog will still want to bite regardless of being muzzled, which will in turn result in more "accidental" bites when the dog is not muzzled.
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    That is crazy. Soon we will be told that we should allow them to continue with their crime ridden lives as we wouldn't want to infringe on their rights. Why have a dog then? Might as well have a big, fast runnin' patrolman named Bubba or something to run them down and tackle. At that point, 250# would be much more fun to watch than 80#. LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pudge113 View Post
    Ridiculous.


    That will backfire more than it will work. The bitework is based off of prey drive for the most part. The dog will still want to bite regardless of being muzzled, which will in turn result in more "accidental" bites when the dog is not muzzled.
    Pudge has one hell of a point here. The success of currently accepted K9 training hinges upon the fact that it is based on the animal's own instincts. Dogs' behavior is modified to perform within that instinctive realm, rather than having to adopt behaviors that aren't natural. Headbutting is not an instinctive trait of any breed that I know of, unless you begin training goats for police work.

    Backfire is right... of volcanic proportions. Taking away the dog's primary weapon and means of defense (the bite), opens the animal to being injured or killed without the ability to safeguard itself properly. I'd sooner not have a canine at all.

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    Send a horse after them, to run them into the ground. They'd wish it'd been a dog at that point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducky View Post
    Send a horse after them, to run them into the ground. They'd wish it'd been a dog at that point.
    We would if we had any, unfortunately budget cuts mean only a handful of the 43 or so forces even have a mounted section.

    Handlers are also discouraged from getting the hound out at spontaneous public order incidents..night club brawls etc

    The trouble with our compensation culture here is that it is easier to pay the offender,oops, aggrieved party, £1000 - £2000 than to fight it in court and have to pay some hooray henry of a barrister to defend the action.

    Anyway you'd be kucky to find a dog handler , they are rare as rocking horse sh1t, also due to budget cuts.
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  9. #9
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    That just isn't right...

    Trying to find words for how ridiculous that sounds is difficult...

  10. #10
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    "The dogs have a powerful butt". Apparently, so does Chief Constable Brunstrom....and he is using it to think with.


    I am with Pudge and CB.....the prey drive and the fetch drive are what its all about with the dog. You can't really mess with the animals true instincts and still have an effective tool. The bonding which happens between K-9 and handler also occurrs at the instinctual level and is based largely on their interaction during the hunt. Mess with that and you have a non-motivated animal who may not care much about it's master.

    WTF, over.


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  11. #11
    semperfi508 is offline Better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6
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    thats great first they dont carry any fire arms now their dogs cant even bite any one!!!! whats next instead of arresting them they will just put across their knees and spank em!!!!

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by semperfi508 View Post
    thats great first they dont carry any fire arms now their dogs cant even bite any one!!!! whats next instead of arresting them they will just put across their knees and spank em!!!!
    From what I've been given to understand, that's a harsher punishment than what is often dealt by the courts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by semperfi508 View Post
    thats great first they dont carry any fire arms now their dogs cant even bite any one!!!! whats next instead of arresting them they will just put across their knees and spank em!!!!
    The line forms in the rear, behind Beans and RSA...

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    Quote Originally Posted by countybear View Post
    The line forms in the rear, behind Beans and RSA...
    Beans

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    Interesting. How will they deliver their flying headbutts into suspects who have hidden themselves under a car? Many tracks have led to a suspect hiding in a small space in order to avoid detection from the police. Sometimes they leave a limb hanging out for the dog to latch onto and drag the suspect out. It's the price they pay for running. Using a police dog to extract a suspect is safer for the police officers involved, fun for the dog, and most of all, a painful and learning experience (sometimes) for the suspect.

    Barring that, the psychological factor alone is enough to keep some people from acting detrimentally to their health. To the sensible person, the sight of a police dog's teeth equals a not-so-subtle but clear message to behave themselves.

    But a muzzled dog? Please. I equate it to carrying a foam baton.

    So, the claims are that a dog head-butt is the force-continuum equivalent of a baton strike. So is a bean-bag shotgun round. Are those options available to the street-level constable in the UK? Maybe one of the UK officers can help me out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by countybear View Post
    , unless you begin training goats for police work.

    .
    We already do that. But we call them Senior Officers, just to be PC.
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    So, if they carried firearms, would they just have simunitions in them too?

    WTF?
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