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  1. #1
    TheeBadOne's Avatar
    TheeBadOne is offline Why so serious?
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    Pasadena police say Horn shot 2 men in the back

    Pasadena police say Horn shot 2 men in the back

    The two burglary suspects killed by Pasadena homeowner Joe Horn were shot in the back after they ventured into his front yard, police disclosed Friday.
    In another twist, investigators revealed that a plainclothes Pasadena detective witnessed the Nov. 14 shootings after he pulled up in an unmarked car seconds before Horn fired three shots from his 12-gauge shotgun.
    The men, who had just burglarized Horn's neighbor's house, faced him from seven to 10 feet away when they ignored his order to "not move"or they would be dead, police said.
    The controversial shootings have outraged minority activists but also brought an outpouring of support for Horn.
    "We now have a summary documenting what we think happened," said Capt. A.H. "Bud" Corbett. "We will turn it over to the district attorney in a couple of weeks after we do an extensive review for quality control."
    The district attorney will then present the case to a grand jury to determine if any charges should be filed against Horn, 61, a computer consultant, who has claimed self-defense.
    The two men Diego Ortiz, 30, and Hernando Riascos Torres, 48 collapsed and died not far from Horn's home on Timberline in a Pasadena neighborhood.
    Both were illegal immigrants from Colombia, authorities said. Torres had been deported to Colombia in 1999 after serving time for possession with intent to distribute cocaine. Both were also using fake identification cards and aliases, and their backgrounds are now being scrutinized by federal authorities to determine if they were part of a Colombian fake ID and burglary ring, authorities said.
    On Friday, Corbett described the shooting scenario that had been pieced together so far.
    According to a transcript of Horn's 911 call, at 2 p.m., he became concerned that his next- door neighbor's home was being burglarized after hearing some glass break.
    The dispatcher repeatedly urges Horn to stay in his house but Horn states that he doesn't feel it's right to let the burglars get away.
    "Well, here it goes, buddy," Horn tells the dispatcher. "You hear the shotgun clicking and I'm going."
    The dispatcher replies: "Don't go outside."
    Then the tape records Horn warning someone: "Move and you're dead!" Two quick shots can be heard, followed by a pause and then a third shot.
    Corbett said the plainclothes detective, whose name has not been released, had parked in front of Horn's house in response to the 911 call. He saw the men between Horn's house and his neighbor's before they crossed into Horn's front yard.
    Corbett believes neither Horn nor the men knew a police officer was present.
    "It was over within seconds. The detective never had time to say anything before the shots were fired," Corbett said. "At first, the officer was assessing the situation. Then he was worried Horn might mistake him for the 'wheel man' (get-away driver). He ducked at one point."
    When Horn confronted the suspects in his yard, he raised his shotgun to his shoulder, Corbett said. However the men ignored his order to freeze.
    Corbett said one man ran toward Horn, but had angled away from him toward the street when he was shot in the back just before reaching the curb.
    "The detective confirmed that this suspect was actually closer to Horn after he initiated his run than at the time when first confronted," said Corbett. "Horn said he felt in jeopardy."

    Autopsy report

    The wounded man crossed the street, collapsed and died, authorities said. At the same time, the other man had turned and ran away from Horn. Horn swung his shotgun around after shooting the first man and fired at the second one after he entered the neighbor's yard, investigators said.
    He was hit in the back but continued running until collapsing a few hundred yards down the street, Corbett said.
    According to a final ruling, Ortiz died of shotgun wounds to his neck and torso, said Ellie Wallace, an investigator at the Harris County Medical Examiner's Office.
    The report said that Torres died of shotgun wounds to his torso and upper left extremity.
    Wallace could not confirm whether the men were shot in the back, saying the autopsy report only indicated they were shot in the torso.
    Neither suspect was armed, but one had a "center punch," a 6-inch pointed metal tool, in his pocket that might be used as a weapon, authorities said.
    Also, they were carrying a sack filled with more than $2,000 in cash and assorted jewelry believed taken in the burglary, police said.

    Self-defense claim

    Investigators believe a third person may have driven the men from Houston to the Pasadena neighborhood. Police could find no vehicle belonging to the pair parked in the area. On the 911 tape, Horn mentioned a new state law that allows residents to protect their own home from intruders.
    "This case is a little different," Corbett said. "We'll have to let the grand jury sort this one out."
    Horn's attorney, Charles T. Lambright, said his client fired in self-defense because he feared for his life.
    "One of them (suspects) moved and Joe thought he was coming towards him," Lambright said. "They were in such close proximity (to Horn) that they could be on top of him in half a second."
    The fact that a police officer witnessed the shooting but did not arrest Horn is further evidence that he acted in self-defense, he said.
    "You've got a trained police officer sitting there watching this, and he doesn't arrest Horn," Lambright said. "If the (plainclothes) officer thought it was not a righteous shooting, maybe the Pasadena Police Department would have arrested Mr. Horn for murder."
    Civil rights activist Quanell X said he would step up the call for a murder indictment against Horn, and questioned whether the Pasadena police should investigate the case.
    Quanell X said the shooting should be handled instead by the Texas Rangers and the FBI.
    "I don't trust the Pasadena Police Department," he said. "Why are they just now releasing the fact that an undercover officer witnessed the whole thing? This case stinks."

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    I slow down, and then it occurs to me, I'm not afraid of small children"!

  2. #2
    jmur5074's Avatar
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    As I state earlier, this guy acted in a reckless manner and should be charged.
    No one has greater love than this, to lay down ones life for ones friends - John 15:13

    "The Wicked Flee When No Man Pursueth: But The Righteous Are Bold As A Lion".

    We lucky few, we band of brothers. For he who today sheds his blood with me shall be my brother.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~
    The opinions, beliefs, and ideas expressed in this post are mine, and mine alone. They are NOT the opinions, beliefs, ideas, or policies of my Agency, Police Chief, City Council, or any member of my department.

  3. #3
    Ducky's Avatar
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    Sounds like certain groups have their panties in a twist that things aren't going their way.
    \\
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  4. #4
    MonsterMash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheeBadOne View Post
    Both were illegal immigrants from Colombia, authorities said. Torres had been deported to Colombia in 1999 after serving time for possession with intent to distribute cocaine. Both were also using fake identification cards and aliases, and their backgrounds are now being scrutinized by federal authorities to determine if they were part of a Colombian fake ID and burglary ring, authorities said.

    Also, they were carrying a sack filled with more than $2,000 in cash and assorted jewelry believed taken in the burglary, police said.
    Oh well. Guess they won't be stealing, transporting dope or hopping the border illegally anymore.
    Are you a 3%er? If you aren't, you should be.

  5. #5
    Lazy Fed's Avatar
    Lazy Fed is offline Curmudgeon
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonsterMash View Post
    Oh well. Guess they won't be stealing, transporting dope or hopping the border illegally anymore.
    +100000000000000
    dulce et decorum est pro patria mori


    Quote Originally Posted by Resident Smart Ass
    Life is to short not to experience Lazy Fed
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    O RLY?? YA RLY NO WAI!!!!

    The incoherent statements given in my posts DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency or any other person for that matter. They are MY PERSONAL DELUSIONAL FANTASIES and I accept sole responsibility as such as I am either drunk or stressed out of my mind.

  6. #6
    gwebb1981 is offline Officer First Class
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    "Well, here it goes, buddy," Horn tells the dispatcher. "You hear the shotgun clicking and I'm going."
    The dispatcher replies: "Don't go outside."
    Then the tape records Horn warning someone: "Move and you're dead!" Two quick shots can be heard, followed by a pause and then a third shot.
    I remember hearing the tape and I thought I heard "Boom, you're dead!" instead of "Move and you're dead!" Anyone else hear the same thing? Overall I believe it's a victory (two less chits on the streets), but with the price that this guy needs to be charged.
    Like the article states. There WAS a PLAINCLOTHED officer on scene. This whole thing could of turned out WAAAY different (alot worse!), but all could of been avoided if the guy just listened to the dispatcher.
    (But I wasn't there... opinion based on what I read)

    Want to do police work? ..Become a cop. End of story.
    Last edited by gwebb1981; 12-08-07 at 09:49 PM. Reason: Added stuff

  7. #7
    gwebb1981 is offline Officer First Class
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    Civil rights activist Quanell X said he would step up the call for a murder indictment against Horn, and questioned whether the Pasadena police should investigate the case.
    Quanell X said the shooting should be handled instead by the Texas Rangers and the FBI.
    "I don't trust the Pasadena Police Department," he said. "Why are they just now releasing the fact that an undercover officer witnessed the whole thing? This case stinks."
    Who is Quanell X? And how does he have authority to state murder charges should be charged, and that the Texas Rangers and FBI should handle this case? And by his name, what an obvious attempt to follow in the foot steps of Malcolm X. At least he could of picked a different letter after his name. Like "Quanell Y" (for the chromosome he's missing) or "Quanell O" (he can be the hugs to malcolm's kisses).
    Or is it a common practice in the Black Panthers to use "X" as your last name? What does this have to do with the Black Panthers anyways? They were illegals from colombia!!
    Ouch... my head hurts.

  8. #8
    Illiy is offline Corporal
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwebb1981 View Post
    Like the article states. There WAS a PLAINCLOTHED officer on scene. This whole thing could of turned out WAAAY different (alot worse!), but all could of been avoided if the guy just listened to the dispatcher.
    That was my previous point...

    Thanks for the update

  9. #9
    lewisipso's Avatar
    lewisipso is offline Injustice/Indifference/In God we trust
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    As I said, if he has violated the law, charge his ass. This should not be a popularity contest or something based on opinion. This is not a feel good event.
    Do not war for peace. If you must war, war for justice. For without justice there is no peace. -me

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  10. #10
    Ruffy's Avatar
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    heres a link to the 911 call made
    http://www.break.com/index/brave-nei...911-call2.html
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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  11. #11
    k-9max's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonsterMash View Post
    Oh well. Guess they won't be stealing, transporting dope or hopping the border illegally anymore.
    +10000000000
    YEAH, IM THE BERRIES, AND CHERRIES IN YOUR REAR VIEW MIRROR.

    Handle every stressful situation like a dog.
    Eat it, Play with it, or piss on it, and walk away!

    As smart as man is, we haven't been able to invent a machine that can smell drugs or tell us where a person has walked, Dogs are sophisticated investigative tools!

  12. #12
    hybrid's Avatar
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    In all honesty, I wish there were more people like this guy. There would be a whole lot less crime here. Break into my house, I promise you, you will not leave........ Good job Horn....

  13. #13
    gwebb1981 is offline Officer First Class
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    In all honesty, I wish there were more people like this guy. There would be a whole lot less crime here. Break into my house, I promise you, you will not leave........ Good job Horn....
    That's the point... It wasn't his house, nor did he know the neighbors well.

    If it was his house that was robbed, go ahead and hand the crook his own ass!
    Last edited by gwebb1981; 12-09-07 at 04:11 PM. Reason: Added stuff

  14. #14
    BEK's Avatar
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    so if you shoot someone in the back its not self defense?


  15. #15
    gwebb1981 is offline Officer First Class
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    so if you shoot someone in the back its not self defense?
    I think it said he shot 2 guys in the back. I wasn't there, but this is how the scenario plays in my head as I read it.
    2 robbers leave house. Horn walks into yard with shotgun. Guy probably thinks he can reach Horn before he can draw. Seeing the gun being raised the guy turns to run in other direction and gets the load in the back (self-defense). Other guy takes off running and takes a spread shot in the back which allows him to run a bit before bleeding out (harder to justify self-defense). A third shot was fired. If first guy died by first shot at close proximity. Even if second shot got the second guy at close proximity (or missed target, which would make self defense even harder to prove), the third shot had to of gone off while the guy was running away, which is harder to justify "self-defense" and shows intent of wanting to finish him off since he was getting away.
    Again, he was told to stay inside. I see a guy who just wanted to shoot someone with the newly passed laws in effect.

  16. #16
    BEK's Avatar
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    Two men suspected of burglarizing a neighbor's home were shot in the back by Pasadena homeowner Joe Horn after the suspects ventured into his front yard, Pasadena police disclosed Friday.
    Also, for the first time, investigators revealed the Nov. 14 shooting was witnessed by a plainclothes Pasadena detective, who had pulled up in an unmarked car seconds before Horn fired three shots from his 12-guage shotgun.
    The detective's name was not released as the new details emerged about the controversial shootings that have outraged minority activists but also brought an outpouring of support from others.
    "We have now documented a summary of what we think happened. We will turn it over to the district attorney in a couple of weeks after we finish our extensive quality control review," said Pasadena Police Department Captain A.H. "Bud" Corbett. The Harris County district attorney will then present the case to a grand jury to determine if any charges should be filed against Horn.
    The suspects were illegal immigrants from Colombia, and one man had been deported nearly 10 years ago, authorities said.
    oAuthorities have said they are investigating whether Dieg Ortiz, 30, and Hernando Riascos Torres, 48, were part of a crime ring linked to burglaries and the use of fake immigration documents.
    The two killed by Horn after he said they were trying to steal his neighbor's property were in the country illegally, according to Leticia Zamarripa, a spokeswoman for the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
    Horn, 61, shot Ortiz and Torres, who went by the alias Miguel Antonio DeJesus. Horn called police after hearing breaking glass. He ignored an operator's warning to not go outside with his gun.
    Corbett said Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction. He was on parole until 2017, Corbett said.
    Police found a Puerto Rican identification card on Ortiz. He had two aliases.
    Torres had identification cards from Colombia, Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic. He had three aliases.
    State and federal authorities are investigating whether the two men, who lived in southwest Houston, were involved in the crime ring, Corbett said.
    Police found almost $2,000 in cash in a white bag the men allegedly took from the home in the 7400 block of Timberline before Horn shot them.
    Investigators also are trying to determine whether the men knew about the home or family before burglarizing it.
    "I don't believe the victim was a random choice ... but there's no evidence of a relationship either," between the homeowners and suspects, Corbett said.
    Horn told the operator that he did not know his neighbors well. Neighbors said the family moved into the home next to Horn's house about four months ago.
    "I can't comment," a woman at the home said over the phone Thursday night.
    A source told police that Ortiz and Torres burglarized the home, in part, because the homeowners were immigrants.
    "They targeted foreign-born people," Corbett said. "They felt they were easier victims."
    Little is known about the homeowners, who have Vietnamese surnames.
    Neighbors said they own a small business near their Village Grove East subdivision.
    Records filed with the Office of the Secretary of State of Texas show that the family owns a dry cleaning business on Fairmont Parkway.
    Horn has received an outpouring of support from some neighbors, friends and strangers, but the incident also has outraged activists and other neighbors.
    Activists and Horn supporters clashed Sunday when they staged dueling protests outside his home. The homeowners association is trying to prevent more protests from being held in the subdivision.



    And for some reason I dont see a guy waiting to shoot someone



 

 

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