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View Poll Results: Is putting a ban on assault rifles in Miami a good idea?

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  • Yes

    8 20.51%
  • No

    29 74.36%
  • Unsure

    2 5.13%
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  1. #1
    Terminator's Avatar
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    Miami's Police Chief calling for ban on assault rifles in the city

    MIAMI- AK-47 assault rifles can shoot through a police vest or even through a car, and police said they're flooding Miami streets.
    Miami's police chief and a city commissioner talked on Thursday about banning assault rifles in the city. They said what they really want is for the federal government to take action.
    A Miami city commissioner said in 2004 that when Washington gets a cold, a sneeze is felt in Miami. That's how he described the president's decision not to renew the ban on assault rifles.
    Since then, there has been a 12 percent increase in shooting deaths and two police officers have been killed.
    "Our police are outgunned and out manned," said Commissioner Marc Sarnoff.
    Surrounded by police officers and the family of slain Miami Detective James Walker, Sarnoff took aim at AK-47s. An officer in the room held one that had been confiscated from a gang member.
    "These guns are designed to kill with lethal force," Sarnoff said. "Their place is on the battlefield, not in the city of Miami, not on our streets."
    Sarnoff said he wants citizens to send a letter, which is available on his Website, to their representatives in congress urging lawmakers to bring back the ban on assault weapons.
    Walker's family joined the effort.
    "Please, let's reinstate the ban on assault rifles," said Walker's widow. "Thank you."
    "If something isn't done, what is a young police officer going to be facing 10 years from now?" said Chief John Timoney. "It will be Rambo becomes reality."
    Timoney said the 2004 decision to let the ban expire resulted in a flood of AK-47s on South Florida streets. A pie graph showed a jump from 4 percent of shooting deaths in 2004 to 16 percent committed with assault rifles last year.
    "Our police don't stand a fighting chance against these military-style assault weapons," Sarnoff said.
    Sarnoff and Timoney said the national ban was reasonable regulation and not an assault on the right to bear arms.

  2. #2
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    Well I may have some people jump all over for me with this one, but I agree that assault rifles don't need to be made available to the public.

    They aren't necessary for hunting or personal protection, except maybe in the home.

    They are designed to kill. And for that reason should only be in the hands of the military and law enforcement.

    Now with that being said, we are way way way beyond the point of banning them, because as we all know criminals don't follow the rules. Banning them may take them out of the hands of law abiding citizens, but it's not like the bad guys are gonna stop by the PD to drop their guns off. Even if they are "banned", the assault rifles remaining in the rest of the country will make their way to Miami for the bad guys to use.

    The solution to the problem is to arm your officers to the max. Give them every available tool necessary to defend against these gang bangers. The commissioner even said the coppers down there are outgunned. So fix the problem by making the gang bangers outgunned. Start putting them in the ground rather than your officers.
    No one has greater love than this, to lay down ones life for ones friends - John 15:13

    "The Wicked Flee When No Man Pursueth: But The Righteous Are Bold As A Lion".

    We lucky few, we band of brothers. For he who today sheds his blood with me shall be my brother.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~
    The opinions, beliefs, and ideas expressed in this post are mine, and mine alone. They are NOT the opinions, beliefs, ideas, or policies of my Agency, Police Chief, City Council, or any member of my department.

  3. #3
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    i have to say this article pissed me off pretty good.

    In miami there is this thought from higher ups in all the police departments that there is no GANG violence that is out of control...LMAO... eh hem.. anyway... yet they have gang squads...
    sorry back to topic..
    The rifles are flooding the streets. I impounded at least 5 a week and would deal with someone once a month who had one loaded. It is a normal thing there in Dade County... well at least in my district which was one of the bad ones.
    There is also a handgun that is capable of using armor piercing bullets... Paul has one in the storage locker... but the name escapes me at the moment... one kind of bullet for it is not available anymore but anyway... those are out there in full force too.
    All of these rifles are black market, stolen etc... so I really dont understand what a BAN on them would do?
    The people who use them could never buy them legally- at least pass the qualifications to get them... so they get them from
    burglaries... the average joe that goes to buy a rifle in miami are not the threat.
    The citizens of Miami, in my opinion need to arm themselves in their homes just as much as officers do on the streets... the armed home invasions were out of control there and I was always so disgusted going to one of those calls and finding these people. (not that them having a gun may have changed anything.. who knows... but i still feel that an educated trained person with a gun in their home is better than a sheep).
    These gangs down there are pitted against eachother- haitans vs hispanics... however - the one night when my brother was in a fight with a gang member and shot him dead a few months back turned the tables a little. Our station was targeted and may still be targeted -
    I just dont think banning these guns in miami is the solution.

    I do know going to court and having the asshole out on the street is not helping anything... it would be nice to be backed up by the friggen state atty when we make these damn fucking arrests... hell i had the shit beat out of me by a guy and he got to walk.....

    criminals in miami know our jails are too full and our system is too backed up....also they just flee to the dominican republic or some other damn country back home when they are done with what ever they have done.... and does that lead me into immigration?? oh geesh....
    how many folks were illlegal that i arrested with weapons????
    30% the rest had green cards and maybe 5% were citizens....
    wonder what that says.....

    at least they would work on deporting them when they were not legal... but to what... enter back in??? *sigh* which they did.... a guy deported for beating his girlfriend up and then punching me... 8 months later i went to the same call- he ran- set up a perimeter and got him.... same guy... WTF??? so if he is back in... i am sure those associated with guns were back in.

    The % increase??? sorry but... to me that is just the gang violence finally coming more out of the wood work along with all the other crap that has been tried to be stuffed down in some can for years.... shit is gonna boil over and well, it is in miami.

    so many times i would click that box in the top right corner of my reports saying.... gang related.... only to have it kicked back down from upstairs telling me to unclick it...
    nice...
    yeah... what??? there is no gang violence in miami... lol

    but cops are now dying because of it.... and it makes me really pissed off that so late in the game this shit is dealt with.

    5-10 years ago this should have been at the top of our agendas and either sections in our department could go specialize in it like we have some now.. but so little so late... its hard to catch up once behind the 8 ball.... and then follow up in the damn courts...
    specially juveniles... omg... they get peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and then go home...

    sorry for the rant...
    sorry also if some of my thoughts are not fully clear...
    small hot button

    Quote Originally Posted by Terminator View Post
    MIAMI- AK-47 assault rifles can shoot through a police vest or even through a car, and police said they're flooding Miami streets.
    Miami's police chief and a city commissioner talked on Thursday about banning assault rifles in the city. They said what they really want is for the federal government to take action.
    A Miami city commissioner said in 2004 that when Washington gets a cold, a sneeze is felt in Miami. That's how he described the president's decision not to renew the ban on assault rifles.
    Since then, there has been a 12 percent increase in shooting deaths and two police officers have been killed.
    "Our police are outgunned and out manned," said Commissioner Marc Sarnoff.
    Surrounded by police officers and the family of slain Miami Detective James Walker, Sarnoff took aim at AK-47s. An officer in the room held one that had been confiscated from a gang member.
    "These guns are designed to kill with lethal force," Sarnoff said. "Their place is on the battlefield, not in the city of Miami, not on our streets."
    Sarnoff said he wants citizens to send a letter, which is available on his Website, to their representatives in congress urging lawmakers to bring back the ban on assault weapons.
    Walker's family joined the effort.
    "Please, let's reinstate the ban on assault rifles," said Walker's widow. "Thank you."
    "If something isn't done, what is a young police officer going to be facing 10 years from now?" said Chief John Timoney. "It will be Rambo becomes reality."
    Timoney said the 2004 decision to let the ban expire resulted in a flood of AK-47s on South Florida streets. A pie graph showed a jump from 4 percent of shooting deaths in 2004 to 16 percent committed with assault rifles last year.
    "Our police don't stand a fighting chance against these military-style assault weapons," Sarnoff said.
    Sarnoff and Timoney said the national ban was reasonable regulation and not an assault on the right to bear arms.
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  4. #4
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    Banning guns, any type of guns is not the answer. It has not worked in D.C., N.Y. or Kalifornia. Why waste the funds to pass legislation that goes nowhere. Second what percentage of LEO's are shot with assault rifles? I vote no for any legislator that proposes such legislation, For the most part it is grandstanding. IMHOP

  5. #5
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    Well I may have some people jump all over for me with this one, but I agree that assault rifles don't need to be made available to the public.

    They aren't necessary for hunting or personal protection, except maybe in the home.

    The rifles which are called "assault rifles" actually are not, but I won't quibble with names.

    The right to keep and bear arms has nothing to do with hunting, and hunting rifles are on the average twice as powerful as what they call "assault rifles."

    In fact, what they call "assault rifles" are actually so weak that most states will not allow you to hunt with them.

    In one more point of fact, besides being weaker than hunting guns, the only functional difference is appearance.

    Would you rather be cut with a pretty knife or one that looks tactical? Thought so.

    They are designed to kill. And for that reason should only be in the hands of the military and law enforcement.

    All firearms are designed to kill, and for that reason they are precisely guaranteed to be in the hands of the general public by our great founding fathers.

    One must not wish for firearms that "merely wound" as such firearms do not exist.

    Now with that being said, we are way way way beyond the point of banning them, because as we all know criminals don't follow the rules. Banning them may take them out of the hands of law abiding citizens, but it's not like the bad guys are gonna stop by the PD to drop their guns off. Even if they are "banned", the assault rifles remaining in the rest of the country will make their way to Miami for the bad guys to use.

    OK, no argument there - except that what they are calling "assault rifles" are used very infrequently by actual criminals. Check your DOJ statistics.

    The solution to the problem is to arm your officers to the max. Give them every available tool necessary to defend against these gang bangers. The commissioner even said the coppers down there are outgunned. So fix the problem by making the gang bangers outgunned. Start putting them in the ground rather than your officers.

    This part here is the brightest and best part of your post. Bravo!
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


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    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    The solution to the problem is to arm your officers to the max. Give them every available tool necessary to defend against these gang bangers. The commissioner even said the coppers down there are outgunned. So fix the problem by making the gang bangers outgunned. Start putting them in the ground rather than your officers.

    This part here is the brightest and best part of your post. Bravo!
    Well hopefully I redeemed myself with that. haha
    No one has greater love than this, to lay down ones life for ones friends - John 15:13

    "The Wicked Flee When No Man Pursueth: But The Righteous Are Bold As A Lion".

    We lucky few, we band of brothers. For he who today sheds his blood with me shall be my brother.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~
    The opinions, beliefs, and ideas expressed in this post are mine, and mine alone. They are NOT the opinions, beliefs, ideas, or policies of my Agency, Police Chief, City Council, or any member of my department.

  7. #7
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    i have to say this article pissed me off pretty good.

    Me too.

    In miami there is this thought from higher ups in all the police departments that there is no GANG violence that is out of control...LMAO... eh hem.. anyway... yet they have gang squads...
    sorry back to topic..

    Administrators cannot admit failure.

    The rifles are flooding the streets. I impounded at least 5 a week and would deal with someone once a month who had one loaded. It is a normal thing there in Dade County... well at least in my district which was one of the bad ones.

    There is no increase in rifles flooding the streets, there is an increase in assholes willing to carry one in the street.

    There is also a handgun that is capable of using armor piercing bullets... Paul has one in the storage locker... but the name escapes me at the moment... one kind of bullet for it is not available anymore but anyway... those are out there in full force too.

    It is called the FN 57, and although they are available at any gun store, the ammunition which pierces armor is not. I have personally observed the FN 57 being stopped by level 2 armor with commercially available ammunition. The AP ammo is available only to the military and police.

    All of these rifles are black market, stolen etc... so I really dont understand what a BAN on them would do?

    Absolutely nothing, as the last ban also did absolutely nothing.

    The people who use them could never buy them legally- at least pass the qualifications to get them... so they get them from
    burglaries... the average joe that goes to buy a rifle in miami are not the threat.

    Precisely, excellently said.

    The citizens of Miami, in my opinion need to arm themselves in their homes just as much as officers do on the streets... the armed home invasions were out of control there and I was always so disgusted going to one of those calls and finding these people. (not that them having a gun may have changed anything.. who knows... but i still feel that an educated trained person with a gun in their home is better than a sheep).

    Bravo!

    These gangs down there are pitted against eachother- haitans vs hispanics... however - the one night when my brother was in a fight with a gang member and shot him dead a few months back turned the tables a little. Our station was targeted and may still be targeted -
    I just dont think banning these guns in miami is the solution.

    Bravo!

    I do know going to court and having the asshole out on the street is not helping anything... it would be nice to be backed up by the friggen state atty when we make these damn fucking arrests... hell i had the shit beat out of me by a guy and he got to walk.....

    criminals in miami know our jails are too full and our system is too backed up....also they just flee to the dominican republic or some other damn country back home when they are done with what ever they have done.... and does that lead me into immigration?? oh geesh....
    how many folks were illlegal that i arrested with weapons????
    30% the rest had green cards and maybe 5% were citizens....
    wonder what that says.....

    at least they would work on deporting them when they were not legal... but to what... enter back in??? *sigh* which they did.... a guy deported for beating his girlfriend up and then punching me... 8 months later i went to the same call- he ran- set up a perimeter and got him.... same guy... WTF??? so if he is back in... i am sure those associated with guns were back in.

    The % increase??? sorry but... to me that is just the gang violence finally coming more out of the wood work along with all the other crap that has been tried to be stuffed down in some can for years.... shit is gonna boil over and well, it is in miami.

    so many times i would click that box in the top right corner of my reports saying.... gang related.... only to have it kicked back down from upstairs telling me to unclick it...
    nice...
    yeah... what??? there is no gang violence in miami... lol

    but cops are now dying because of it.... and it makes me really pissed off that so late in the game this shit is dealt with.

    Cops are dying because we are training poorly, equipping poorly, and using bad tactics. How often do you shoot and practice tactics?

    5-10 years ago this should have been at the top of our agendas and either sections in our department could go specialize in it like we have some now.. but so little so late... its hard to catch up once behind the 8 ball.... and then follow up in the damn courts...
    specially juveniles... omg... they get peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and then go home...

    sorry for the rant...
    sorry also if some of my thoughts are not fully clear...
    small hot button
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  8. #8
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmur5074 View Post
    Well hopefully I redeemed myself with that. haha

    No need to redeem yourself, we are all entitled to opinions.

    I just like other LEO's to think about what we swore to uphold when we signed on.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  9. #9
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    What's the point. The shitheads already have them or have easy access to one. Banning doesn't mean shit. The only thing that it would affect would be the people who legally purchased them and have them at home.
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  10. #10
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    I live in Omaha, Nebraska and we sadly had a recent shooting involving someone with an "assault rifle" at one of our malls (which I visited yesterday and found to be quite busy). I do not believe that the problem is with "assault rifles." I personally believe that there are two things that cause issues involving weapons.

    1) Shitheads (pardon my French) on the street aren't looking for a high powered "assault rifle." They want whatever they can get their hands on for the cheapest price. I agree with maclean about our rights concerning weapons. I believe that a ban will do no good. "Assault rifles" like SKS's, AK's, etc... are meant to deliver rounds in quantity, not accurately. Will they shoot accurately? Sure they will, in the hands of someone who trains regularly and/or has knowledge on how to handle these types of weapons. These shitheads just want whatever they can get that will give them an advantage.

    2) When people who own weapons and allow others to access them without checking their qualifications or even to see who actually is using the weapon. I know of way too many people who have 15-20 rifles, shotguns, and handguns who allow multiple people to take them out and use them without even questioning them on whether or not they know what they're doing or if they are even allowed to use such a weapon. I specifically mean when someone allows someone to use a firearm that is used in the commission of an act like multiple shootings is when I believe that more severe punishments should be mandated. People who should be allowed to use such weapons should have to go through the same process before purchasing a weapon.

    Just my two cents worth...
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post

    .

    Cops are dying because we are training poorly, equipping poorly, and using bad tactics. How often do you shoot and practice tactics?
    i will say that our dept is really well trained, we had the best equipment provided- some topnotch stuff even for the streets..though sometimes i took 6months to get it to us... (well and our cars sort of still suck lol and computers are a pain in the ass... but officer safety equipment is there)
    my squad and others... regularly took it upon ourselves to use the range at the training bureau for open shoot days...
    many of the srt guys were there with us and we would do tactics alot. at least 5 times a month we would set up senarios on the shooting range etc... my weakness was moving targets and they helped me tons with that...
    i do have to say mdpd makes a huge effort to not have our officers use bad tactics.. the trainings are there available if the officers take the time to go use them outside what was taught in the academy.
    my squad was a lot of fun, we all had rifles and all loved to go shoot on weekends together outside of the training bureau...
    it paid off one night when we were on our own with no supervisor and had to surround a house with a guy inside armed with kids...
    no srt available at the moment either...

    I was very lucky to have the training i got from that dept.. i speak to other officers and they never had what was provided to me. It is evident as well when other dept from other states send their guys to our trainings....

    shit just happens and it sucks.
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  12. #12
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    Maclean knows what he is talking about.
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    Give me a loudmouth shitbag with an AK on the street anyday over a crackpot with a bolt action 7mm Mag, a 12X Nikon, and a serious weed up his ass in a high window 200 yards away.

    The grandstanding by the feudal lords is really getting old.

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    Quote Originally Posted by countybear View Post
    Give me a loudmouth shitbag with an AK on the street anyday over a crackpot with a bolt action 7mm Mag, a 12X Nikon, and a serious weed up his ass in a high window 200 yards away.
    You mean that deer rifle isn't made to kill?

    Precisely.

    A man with a zeroed "hunting" rifle is a more dangerous adversary than any gang banger with a Yugoslavian knockoff of the AK-47.
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  15. #15
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    How about another example of what makes my sphincter clinch:

    Close quarters in a hallway with a 12 gauge double sawed-off to 12" overall.

    Wait, those are already illegal, aren't they? WOW, I guess nobody told the jack off...

    Should I continue to demonstrate my point?

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  16. #16
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    Please do, until everyone gets it.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  17. #17
    countybear's Avatar
    countybear is offline BDRT - Baby Daddy Removal Team
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    Borrowing from Tim Wilson,

    I can wipe out an entire civilization with a paslode nailgun, and damn straight I can almost rebuild it at the same time.
    Just ask this guy:



    Specifications
    Nail Type: 16 Gauge Smooth
    Nail Lengths: 3/4"- 21/2"
    Nail Capacity: 100 Nails (2 strips)
    Size (HxL): 121/2" x 113/4"
    Weight: 5.5 lbs w/Battery

    Features
    Continuous operation 1,000 nails/hour.
    Intermittent operation 2 to 3 nails/second.
    Fuel cell life is approx 2,400 nails.
    Battery life is approx 4,000 nails/change.
    I guess they'll want to ban those, too.

    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."
    - Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

    Tell me not, Sweet, I am unkind,
    That from the nunnery
    Of thy chaste breast and quiet mind
    To war and arms I fly.
    - Lovelace

    The opinions expressed by this poster are wholly his own, and should never be construed to even remotely be in representation of his employer, its agencies or assigns. In fact, they probably fail to be in alignment with the opinions of any rational human being.

  18. #18
    gozling's Avatar
    gozling is offline the gene pool could use a little chlorine
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    Quote Originally Posted by countybear View Post
    How about another example of what makes my sphincter clinch:

    Close quarters in a hallway with a 12 gauge double sawed-off to 12" overall.

    Wait, those are already illegal, aren't they? WOW, I guess nobody told the jack off...

    Should I continue to demonstrate my point?
    lol... my car got all shot up by one of those a while ago...
    http://www.allpoetry.com/Grunts%20Girl

    We dallied under
    Vine maples and sapling alders
    Searched for lady slippers
    But instead
    Found blackberry riots and
    Desiccated branches

    An old skid road
    Brought ghost ferns and
    Hollows filled with
    Skunk cabbage
    While waves wrapped
    Intricate lacings of weeds
    'Round mule spinners

    His cyanotic eyes
    Were hard enough to make
    The sun turn tail and
    Tender enough to attract me
    To his world of illusion

  19. #19
    Norm357's Avatar
    Norm357 is offline Corporal
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    When are law makers going to realize that CRIMINALS do not obey the law?
    dlefdal said:
    Ummmm, what if I don't like thumbs in my butt?

  20. #20
    Five-0's Avatar
    Five-0 is offline Super Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by countybear View Post
    Give me a loudmouth shitbag with an AK on the street anyday over a crackpot with a bolt action 7mm Mag, a 12X Nikon, and a serious weed up his ass in a high window 200 yards away.
    This is almost exactly what I have told everyone that says I am safer since I moved from an urban municipal department to a county sheriff's department. I know people here that can shoot the ass off a gnat at a 100 yards. That's after a fifth of Jack Danial's, and yes a 30/30 goes through a vest like shit through a goose.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

 

 
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