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  1. #1
    TXPO710's Avatar
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    4th amendmant dead in DC????

    DAVID C. LIPSCOMB
    Courtesy of The Washington Times


    WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The Metropolitan Police Department yesterday announced a new crime initiative that will include officers going into high-crime neighborhoods to search homes for illegal guns.
    "The premise is that residents can have the trust of the ...department," said police spokeswoman Traci Hughes.
    Chief Cathy L. Lanier announced the program and said it focuses on parents or legal guardians who think their children have a gun in the house and are uncomfortable with searching for it themselves.
    Miss Hughes said that residents would be given amnesty for illegal guns found in homes after they are tested for links to crimes. But she said police would investigate the source of the guns if they were found to be involved in a crime.
    She said another primary intent of the initiative is to get guns away from young people, particularly those in small street gangs called crews, who get them for protection or to attack rivals.
    D.C. Council member Phil Mendelson, chairman of the council's public safety committee, said the search program "could be touch-and-go" and its success will hinge on how officers execute the requests.
    "The idea that this is going to be a peaceful, friendly invitation to enter the home may not work," said Mr. Mendelson, at-large Democrat.
    The program will begin March 24 to coincide with D.C. Public Schools' spring break and will run indefinitely, Miss Hughes said.
    The program will not offer cash incentives as the gun-buyback programs do.
    Officer Kristopher Baumann, head of the union that represents the city's police, said the group "supports any well thought out plan to reduce violence."
    However, he hopes the department has considered potential problems with advertising amnesty while checking for guns connection to crimes.
    Mr. Mendelson, who last year criticized Chief Lanier's community policing strategy amid a spike in crime, gave generally positive marks to two other parts of new initiatives — the introduction of an anonymous crime tip hot line and the application of the city's CapStat data-tracking process to monitor illegal guns.
    The number to the tip line will be advertised on electronic signs on patrol cars.
    In December, police attributed about a dozen shootings and hundreds of shots fired in and around the Columbia Heights neighborhood to retaliation by several crews over the fatal shooting in August of Tayon Glover, the brother of local musician and TV actor Anwan "Big G" Glover.
    Though violence among crews calmed going into the new year, it resurfaced in a couple of shootings last month between groups in the Shaw neighborhood near the Washington Convention Center.
    Mr. Mendelson and D.C. Council member Marion Barry, Ward 8 Democrat, are scheduled to hold a joint committee hearing on crews today.
    Republished with permission of The Washington Times.

    Scary times are ahead!!!!

  2. #2
    snuffy2202's Avatar
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    "This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
    -Adolf Hitler, 1935

  3. #3
    dadyswat's Avatar
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    The whole thing scares me, it sounds like DC is becoming a police state. Isn't already illegal for residents to even have a handgun and if they have loing guns those have to be secured with no ammo.

    Trust me I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.

  4. #4
    121Traffic's Avatar
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    Am I not seeing the problem here? I don't think the police are going into the hood to randomly search. From what I gather, it's parents and guardians calling in to report that they think that their kids have guns. They're scared to confront their gangbanging kids, and rightly so in a lot of cases. So they are inviting the cops to come into their homes to remove the guns? Last time I checked, parents own the house, and minors have no say in whether their property gets searched or not, provided the parents say it's okay.

    Right?
    "If anything worthwhile comes of this tragedy, it should be the realization by every citizen that often the only thing that stands between them and losing everything they hold dear... is the man wearing a badge." -- Ronald Reagan, in the wake of the deaths of 4 CHP troopers in the Newhall Incident, 1970

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    Cross240 is offline Temporarily Civilianized
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    Quote Originally Posted by 121Traffic View Post
    Am I not seeing the problem here? I don't think the police are going into the hood to randomly search. From what I gather, it's parents and guardians calling in to report that they think that their kids have guns. They're scared to confront their gangbanging kids, and rightly so in a lot of cases. So they are inviting the cops to come into their homes to remove the guns? Last time I checked, parents own the house, and minors have no say in whether their property gets searched or not, provided the parents say it's okay.

    Right?

    Thats the impression i'm getting too.
    There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter. -- Ernest Hemingway

  6. #6
    Coloradocop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 121Traffic View Post
    Am I not seeing the problem here? I don't think the police are going into the hood to randomly search. From what I gather, it's parents and guardians calling in to report that they think that their kids have guns. They're scared to confront their gangbanging kids, and rightly so in a lot of cases. So they are inviting the cops to come into their homes to remove the guns? Last time I checked, parents own the house, and minors have no say in whether their property gets searched or not, provided the parents say it's okay.

    Right?
    That's what I got from it too... No problem from the way I read it (and I'm a huge supporter of 2nd ammendment rights!).

  7. #7
    Five-0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 121Traffic View Post
    Am I not seeing the problem here? I don't think the police are going into the hood to randomly search. From what I gather, it's parents and guardians calling in to report that they think that their kids have guns. They're scared to confront their gangbanging kids, and rightly so in a lot of cases. So they are inviting the cops to come into their homes to remove the guns? Last time I checked, parents own the house, and minors have no say in whether their property gets searched or not, provided the parents say it's okay.

    Right?
    This just sounds like the typical call the police to instantly fix a problem that has taken years to develop. That problem being the kids running the house hold and joining gangs due to lack of parenting and a general lack of personal responsibility that has permeated our society. What really sucks is after this doesn't work the dumb masses will say not enough was done. These are the same dumb masses that think the government is the solution for whatever problem they are having at the moment. We live in a pass the buck world. The parents don't want to do their part having/raising children. The justice system will not execute or incarcerate anyone unless the prison term includes cable tv. We the voters keep putting up with it and sending the same people back to office. This pisses me off so much I'm done typing about it.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

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    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

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  8. #8
    lewisipso's Avatar
    lewisipso is offline Injustice/Indifference/In God we trust
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    There are exceptions I know but if parents would grow a set of nuts there wouldn't be this problem.
    Chief Cathy L. Lanier announced the program and said it focuses on parents or legal guardians who think their children have a gun in the house and are uncomfortable with searching for it themselves.
    "Oh my baby has to have their privacy." or "My kid is out of control and I'm scared."
    Like my Grandma used to say who's 82 now "I'll talk to you once." "After that you'll be talking to my iron skillet."
    There is no privacy in my house. It's my house. I'll go into any damn thing I damn well please. Hmmm...don't like it? GTFO.
    Now although there appears to be the potential for abuse in this program it seems to be voluntary. As long as the officers don't cross into proprietary issues with the "violator" the residence owner can authorize a search most anywhere.
    Do not war for peace. If you must war, war for justice. For without justice there is no peace. -me

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    R.I.P. Arielle. 08/20/2010-09/16/2012


  9. #9
    Xiphos's Avatar
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    The homeowner or renter has standing to consent to a search, not a juvenile who is just living there. It's a good policy essentially offering amnesty to the homeowner in order to recover stuff that is illegal for juveniles to possess. If we went in that residence on a search warrant the homeowner would be the one getting charged so I think this is a good idea to get the guns out of the hands of thug children.
    Pleasing nobody, one person at a time.

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  10. #10
    Xiphos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    This just sounds like the typical call the police to instantly fix a problem that has taken years to develop. That problem being the kids running the house hold and joining gangs due to lack of parenting and a general lack of personal responsibility that has permeated our society. What really sucks is after this doesn't work the dumb masses will say not enough was done. These are the same dumb masses that think the government is the solution for whatever problem they are having at the moment. We live in a pass the buck world. The parents don't want to do their part having/raising children. The justice system will not execute or incarcerate anyone unless the prison term includes cable tv. We the voters keep putting up with it and sending the same people back to office. This pisses me off so much I'm done typing about it.
    You are absolutely right. As cops though there is nothing we are going to do to get them to parent their children. So now that the parents dropped the ball and Junior is in a gang and armed I think this is a good way to get our hands on the gun.

    I'm far from a gun grabber and have huge problems with DC's gun restrictions. That being said I'd love to get some guns away from banger kids.
    Pleasing nobody, one person at a time.

    That which does not kill me, better start fucking running.

    If I lived every day like it was my last, the body count would be staggering.

    I intend to go in harm's way. -John Paul Jones

    Hunt the wolf, and bring light to the dark places that others fear to go. LT COL Dave Grossman

  11. #11
    lewisipso's Avatar
    lewisipso is offline Injustice/Indifference/In God we trust
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    Right. The exception is a juvenile of course.
    Do not war for peace. If you must war, war for justice. For without justice there is no peace. -me

    We are who we choose to be.

    R.I.P. Arielle. 08/20/2010-09/16/2012


  12. #12
    TXPO710's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXPO710 View Post
    said it focuses on parents or legal guardians who think their children have a gun in the house and are uncomfortable with searching for it themselves.!!
    This is where I see the BS at. Focuses, not exclusive to or only when. Call me parinoid but I don't trust this kind of thing. It may just be a toe in the door, but the foot will soon follow. Come on and think about it. First we have the Patriot act so they can listen to our phone calls now this???? It's just like the "lets ban "assult" rifels, sounds good till you read the fine print. You can call for my straight jacket now.

  13. #13
    Five-0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firing_Pin View Post
    You are absolutely right. As cops though there is nothing we are going to do to get them to parent their children. So now that the parents dropped the ball and Junior is in a gang and armed I think this is a good way to get our hands on the gun.

    I'm far from a gun grabber and have huge problems with DC's gun restrictions. That being said I'd love to get some guns away from banger kids.
    I feel where you are coming from. My rant was more of big picture type thing.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    This just sounds like the typical call the police to instantly fix a problem that has taken years to develop. That problem being the kids running the house hold and joining gangs due to lack of parenting and a general lack of personal responsibility that has permeated our society. What really sucks is after this doesn't work the dumb masses will say not enough was done. These are the same dumb masses that think the government is the solution for whatever problem they are having at the moment. We live in a pass the buck world. The parents don't want to do their part having/raising children. The justice system will not execute or incarcerate anyone unless the prison term includes cable tv. We the voters keep putting up with it and sending the same people back to office. This pisses me off so much I'm done typing about it.
    Reps Inbound
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  15. #15
    dadyswat's Avatar
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    I'm with you Txpo710, it's the what's next that's going to be what you need to watch. Also, if I read it correctly and the gun was traced to a crime then what happens, what kind of crime doesn't qualify for the amnesty, who get's charged? The whole thing sounds scarey to me.

  16. #16
    121Traffic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    This just sounds like the typical call the police to instantly fix a problem that has taken years to develop. That problem being the kids running the house hold and joining gangs due to lack of parenting and a general lack of personal responsibility that has permeated our society. What really sucks is after this doesn't work the dumb masses will say not enough was done. These are the same dumb masses that think the government is the solution for whatever problem they are having at the moment. We live in a pass the buck world. The parents don't want to do their part having/raising children. The justice system will not execute or incarcerate anyone unless the prison term includes cable tv. We the voters keep putting up with it and sending the same people back to office. This pisses me off so much I'm done typing about it.
    While I agree with you for the most part, I have seen more than my fair share of households where "junior" is 16yoa, 6'2"/220lbs, and is often contacted for throwing around members of his immediately family. While there are plenty of parenting issues that people need to address, there are a significant number of parents that do the best they can with what they have, and their kids still join gangs. Maybe it's because they have 4 kids, and dad up and left with his secretary. Maybe one parent has died. Or maybe you're talking about a single parent who's trying to make do for their children, etc. Whatever the reason, some of these parents are decent people, but the bottom line is that nothing they EVER did was going to change they way their kid turned out.

    I'm just a ptrol cop, but I have a collateral duty as a gang suppression officer. As a result, I do a whole lot of presentations to city council, school staffs, etc., on the prevalence of gangs. One question I always get is whether youth diversion programs work on gang members. I always say that they might save one or two, but for every one you save, ten more are ready to hit the streets. Remember...gang members are unique because they actually signed on to be part of a criminal enterprise. This isn't the thief of opportunity, or the guy that robs to support his drug habit. These kids grow up wanting to commit crime. Why? Because society can't offer some of these kids a better deal than the gangs can. Mom works hard but doesn't make much money to provide, and loves her kid as much as a mother can, but he wants cool clothes, free money, and a sense of family and belonging. Gangs offer that, home doesn't.

    I definitely think that we need to get back to putting some of the emphasis on good parenting. BUT, I think that this plan has some merit, because you can bet that a lot of these "kids" are too far gone for good parenting. I'm a firm believer that there is a big difference between "minors" (i.e. under 18) and "kids" that can be saved.
    "If anything worthwhile comes of this tragedy, it should be the realization by every citizen that often the only thing that stands between them and losing everything they hold dear... is the man wearing a badge." -- Ronald Reagan, in the wake of the deaths of 4 CHP troopers in the Newhall Incident, 1970

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  17. #17
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    D.C. Seeks Consent To Search for Guns

    Amnesty Offered for Access to Homes


    Thursday, March 13, 2008; Page B01


    D.C. police are so eager to get guns out of the city that they're offering amnesty to people who allow officers to come into their homes and get the weapons.
    Mayor Adrian M. Fenty and Police Chief Cathy L. Lanier announced yesterday the Safe Homes Initiative, aimed at parents and guardians who know or suspect that their children or other relatives have guns. Under the deal, police target areas hit by violence and seek adults who let them search their homes for guns, with no risk of arrest. The offer also applies to drugs that turn up during the searches, police said.
    The program is scheduled to start March 24 in the Washington Highlands area of Southeast Washington. Officers will go door-to-door seeking permission to search homes for weapons. Police later plan to visit other areas, including sections of Columbia Heights in Northwest and Eckington in Northeast.
    "If we come across illegal contraband, we will confiscate it," Lanier said. "But amnesty means amnesty. We're trying to get guns and drugs off the street."
    Fenty (D) and Lanier announced the plan as part of a new strategy to deal with the prevalence of firearms in a city that has one of the strictest gun control laws in the nation. The Supreme Court will hear arguments next week in a case challenging the constitutionality of the D.C. law.
    Residents who agree to the searches will be asked to sign consent forms. If guns are found, they will be tested to determine whether they were used in crimes. If the results are positive, police will launch investigations, which could lead to charges.
    Boston police are embarking on a similar program this month. Police in that city have been meeting with residents before the door-to-door effort begins. Philadelphia police are considering such an initiative.
    Ronald Hampton, executive director of the National Black Police Association, questioned the Washington effort. As a lifelong D.C. resident and a former police officer, he said, he would not consent to his house being searched.
    "They haven't earned that level of access or respect from the community," Hampton said. "I just can't believe they're trying to do that. I've never heard of anything like that in my life."
    Arthur B. Spitzer, legal director of the Washington office of the American Civil Liberties Union, said the program is "a very bad idea." He said officers might act so aggressively that residents feel coerced into letting them in.
    "It sends the message to the public that the police ought to be able to search your house anytime for any reason," Spitzer said. "People will be intimidated. That cheapens civil liberties and privacy for everyone."
    At a news conference, Fenty and Lanier also said police will host monthly meetings with other law enforcement agencies to identify trends in gun-related crimes and to facilitate information sharing. The goal is to identify repeat offenders and find new ways to stop them, Lanier said.
    "It should give us a much clearer picture of how to coordinate our efforts," she said.
    Police also announced the creation of an anonymous hotline for people to call with information about crimes. The line, 888-919-CRIME, is staffed by detectives. In the coming weeks, the department is planning to set up a system through which the public can send tips as text messages.
    "We want to make sure the community has every means necessary to get in touch with us," Lanier said.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...031202717.html
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  18. #18
    narcodog is offline Rookie
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    So what's the big deal. What is the difference of asking for drugs or a gun in a consent search. It is just the typical anti-gun BS. The tool has always been there and it is a great tool if it's not abused. Consent searches have been a way of life for narcotics for years. If the kid is a gang banger go ask the guardian or parent an see what happens. If the kid is hard core he will get another gun if he wants it. Then he goes and caps his parents for turning him in. Just my two cents. The real LEO's know what the deal is. Political cops, ones who sit around and scratch their asses all day trying to figure out how to justify their huge salaries don't know shit. If they would get out an see the crime and get their asses kicked once in awhile might get a different perspective.
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  19. #19
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    I think the constitutionality of this depends on how the "invitation" is obtained - If the DC police sit by their phones and wait for a call from parents, that's one thing.

    But if they knock on doors uninvited asking to search the house with no invitation, no Probable Cause, and no Reasonable Suspicion, then for whatever my opinion is worth, I think that is unconstitutional.

    I can't remember the cite, but wasn't there a Supreme Court ruling that bars the police from making a person feel that he must comply to a search, when in fact he is under no obligation and may continue on his way without stopping?

    If they are not under detention for at least Reasonable Suspicion, then at that point, simple things like tonal inflection and how the request is phrased can make the request illegal - which I think is why they HAVE to offer amnesty for weapons they find - Because it probably would get tossed out of court.

    If they explain to the homeowner that there is no obligation to comply with the request and there will be no repercussions if they are not allowed entry, then I guess that's ok, but still risky - D.C. is ASKING for another trip to the Supreme Court, courtesy of the NRA.

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  20. #20
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    If they really want to do this, they should probably have their city attorney, or whoever, write up a statement that they read at the door.

    Rather than have each office give their own statement on why they're there.
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