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  1. #1
    TXCharlie's Avatar
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    Pizza Hut Suspends, May Fire Delivery Man Who Shot Robber

    Voice your opinion on suspending this delivery man to Pizza Hut:
    http://www.pizzahut.com/contactus/contactlanding.aspx


    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,344608,00.html
    Tuesday, April 01, 2008



    An Iowa state senator has vowed to stop buying Pizza Hut products if the chain fires a Des Moines delivery man who shot a teen who tried to rob him last week.

    Sen. Brad Zaun, R-Urbandale, told other lawmakers that he supports the delivery man, James William Spiers, according to a report in the Des Moines Register.

    "I think what he did was the right thing," Zaun said Tuesday. "If I was in a situation to protect my family, protect myself, to continue being a father, I would’ve done the same thing."
    The chain has suspended Spiers pending an investigation, the Register reports.

    "We have policy against carrying weapons," Vonnie Walbert, vice president of human resources at Pizza Hut's corporate offices in Dallas told the paper for a March 28 story. "We prohibit employees from carrying guns because we believe that that is the safest for everybody."

    But Zaun thinks Spiers, who had a permit to carry the concealed weapon, was well within his rights when he fired the shots March 27, so Zaun is "going to be watching Pizza Hut."

    Kenneth Jimmerson, 19, who was hit with three bullets, called 911 for medical help and subsequently was arrested on a charge of first-degree robbery.

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  2. #2
    TXCharlie's Avatar
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    Pizza driver: 'There was no way out'

    http://www.desmoinesregister.com/app.../NEWS/80401028

    By JACQUELINE LEE • REGISTER STAFF WRITER • April 1, 2008
    A Des Moines pizza driver who was suspended from his job after he shot an armed robber said today he has been overwhelmed by support from people who cheered what happened.

    “But no one had contacted me directly about a job offer,” said James William Spiers III, 38, who was sent home by Pizza Hut managers after he fired multiple shots at a man who put a gun to his head Thursday and demanded money outside the Sutton Hill Apartments, 2100 S.E. King Ave.

    Related story: State senator says 'I'm going to be watching Pizza Hut'


    The suspect, Kenneth Jimmerson, 19, was arrested when he later called for medical help. Jimmerson, who police say suffered at least three gunshot wounds, survived his injuries and faces a first-degree robbery charge. Melanie Stout, 18, who allegedly called in the pizza order, is charged with conspiracy.

    Spiers said it was the first time in 10 years on the job that he’d been a robbery victim.

    “Anytime you’re involved in delivery, I suppose you’re an easy target,” he said. “But crime is random and it can happen to anybody.

    Spiers, who has a valid handgun permit, said he’s been “pretty much in the dark” about his job since the incident. Vonnie Walbert, vice president of human resources at Pizza Hut’s corporate offices in Dallas, said last week that employees are not allowed to carry guns “because we believe that that is the safest for everybody.”

    “I just know that, given what happened, it’s not likely I’ll have a job anyway,” Spiers said. “Right now, I’m just taking some time off, trying to cool things down.”

    Spiers declined to elaborate on what he called “gross inaccuracies” in media coverage of the incident, “but I can’t correct them right now. It’s not wise for me to talk about the case with the ongoing investigation and all.”

    Police said that when officers arrived, Spiers had both handguns, and the wounded robber had fled.

    “The incident wasn’t something quick and simple… I did not just take the gun out of the guy’s hand and shoot him with it. It was a long ordeal, or it felt like it,” Spiers said. “My life was, without a doubt, in danger. I wouldn’t have shot anybody if I didn’t think my life was in danger.

    “In my circumstance, there was no way out.”

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  3. #3
    Ducky's Avatar
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    Kudos to him. Pizza hut seems to want to make their employees victims. Way to advertise that their drivers are unarmed.
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    Dominos is ALWAYS hiring... and it seems better than PH..

    Well done,.... a legal shoot, sad the knucklehead (bad guy) created teh f-ed up situation, but Spiers took care of it...



    The writer of this post assumes no liability based on his opinion. This opinion is based upon one news story, and as we all know they can be screwed up big-time.... So if this story turns out to be different than it appears (Good guy shoots Bad guy, legal et al) the writer will back peddle as quick as possible so as to not look stupid... thank you have a nice day

  5. #5
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    If I was the delivery man, I'd sue PIZZA HUT for:

    1. Not providing a safe work environment,

    2. Calling their product a PIZZA.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXCharlie View Post
    employees are not allowed to carry guns “because we believe that that is the safest for everybody.”
    He means, "Safest for everyone but our employees."
    Pleasing nobody, one person at a time.

    That which does not kill me, better start fucking running.

    If I lived every day like it was my last, the body count would be staggering.

    I intend to go in harm's way. -John Paul Jones

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  7. #7
    Norm357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bayern View Post
    If I was the delivery man, I'd sue PIZZA HUT for:

    1. Not providing a safe work environment,

    2. Calling their product a PIZZA.
    A fucking men.
    dlefdal said:
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  8. #8
    Ducky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm357 View Post
    A fucking men.
    x2 - I have to tell them to put extra sauce on it, just to keep it from being as dry as a dog biscuit. They've started going light on all their toppings here.


    I want a Chicago style pizza so badly I could cry.
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  9. #9
    TXCharlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducky View Post
    I want a Chicago style pizza so badly I could cry.
    Have you ever had a thick-crust Uno's Chicago-style pizza? I swear, it's the best pizza on earth, and has a crust that's actually better than the toppings, which I can't say about any other pizza I've ever had.

    Here's their locations:

    http://www.unos.com/location.html



    Unfortunately. all our Dallas-area Uno's closed down, so now we have to drive to Fort Worth to get it

    We usually get our pizza from a little local Italian resturant, Bari's, who isn't as good as Uno's, put puts Pizza Hut to shame - I agree, PH is stretching the truth to call their stuff pizza

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    Quote Originally Posted by bayern View Post
    If I was the delivery man, I'd sue PIZZA HUT for:

    1. Not providing a safe work environment,

    2. Calling their product a PIZZA.
    What should it be called instead?

  11. #11
    Ducky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXCharlie View Post
    Have you ever had a thick-crust Uno's Chicago-style pizza? I swear, it's the best pizza on earth, and has a crust that's actually better than the toppings, which I can't say about any other pizza I've ever had.

    Here's their locations:

    http://www.unos.com/location.html



    Unfortunately. all our Dallas-area Uno's closed down, so now we have to drive to Fort Worth to get it

    We usually get our pizza from a little local Italian resturant, Bari's, who isn't as good as Uno's, put puts Pizza Hut to shame - I agree, PH is stretching the truth to call their stuff pizza
    There's one about an hour away, thanks for the info!
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna View Post
    What should it be called instead?
    STYROFOAM with tomato juice.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bayern View Post
    STYROFOAM with tomato juice.
    It would probably be bad for business to change the name to "Styrofoam with Tomato Juice Hut"! But on the plus side such a name would probably reduce the chances of deliverypersons being called out and getting robbed.

  14. #14
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    I remember growing up in Maine.. every little mom-n-pop store had a deli, and they made these paperplate sized pizzas that to this day have no comparison to any pizza I ever have eaten.. simply none better... marios..

    damn...

  15. #15
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    I will start by saying that I do agree with the fact that the driver did the right thing by protecting himself.

    Now I will say this and fly in the face of everyone else's responses. This guy worked for this company fully knowing what their policy was. He chose to violate that policy and therefore should have been prepared to face the chance of being fired if he was found violating the policy.

    We have all worked somewhere that has had policies that we did not agree with but as an employee we did not have the right to decide if the policy was right we had the choice to obey it and keep our jobs or disobey it and risk losing our job.

    Had this same driver been suspended for not following the policy to put the sign on the top of his car we would never have heard of this. Company policy is company policy if you don't like it leave.

    If someone takes a job as an unarmed security guard and says to themselves this is dangerous but I don't want to go through the process to become an armed guard and carries in accordance with law and shoots someone then they should be prepared to be fired.

    This is a dangerous world but if we take a position and we feel unsafe then we need to do something else.

    I am a member of the NRA, and I fully support the rights of citizens to carry a weapon for self-defense but if in doing so you violate law or some other rule against it then be prepared to face the consonances.
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  16. #16
    TXCharlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlaw View Post
    If someone takes a job as an unarmed security guard and says to themselves this is dangerous but I don't want to go through the process to become an armed guard and carries in accordance with law and shoots someone then they should be prepared to be fired.
    I would agree with that, only because it's not legally possible for a security guard to carry a gun unless his employer agrees to allow it (no matter what his level of training).

    In the case of the delivery man, however, the State Legislature has probably deemed that an employer's permission is neither required nor relevant for a regular CHL/CCW employee to legally carry a gun when not on the employer's property according to criminal law (if it's anything like Texas).

    If it's a case of an employee pulling the gun out and showing people for the hell of it, then I'd say fire him - but I would put up an argument that if the employee defended himself, then the brandishing was involuntary, and should be ignored by the employer, based on decency and common sense.

    Sure, the recourse an employer would have is to fire the employee if it becomes known (the ONLY recourse), and I would not put up a legal argument against their right to do that on the employer's property, in casual circumstances, because then it falls under criminal trespass if they provided legally-compliant notice - But this was not a casual circumstance, it was a life-threatening circumstance.

    Criminally it's none of an employer's business unless they provide official properly worded notice beforehand, and the employee is carrying on their premises (except for the parking lot, which is normally excluded from the definition of premises unless it has signage too).

    I have worked for employers who said "no guns" in their official HR policy, but purposefully used non-compliant wording to allow licensed individuals to carry (especially managers and supervisors). One of my employers even had non-compliant signs everywhere, but Security told me to just ignore them if I'm licensed.

    If the notice used non-compliant wording I ignore it, and I would put up the legal argument that the policy contract's wording and/or method of delivery was contrary to state law requirements for notice to CHL holders.

    Even having been given proper notice, a civil jury might still agree with me that the company attempted to violate my civil rights by illegal coresion for threatening to fire me in official policy, if I only pulled my gun in clear self-defense - in which case my right to life would override any company's rights to regulate my behavior, on or off of their property.

    This is another area I hope the Supreme Court clears up, but I have no confidence that they will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The91Bravo View Post
    I remember growing up in Maine.. every little mom-n-pop store had a deli, and they made these paperplate sized pizzas that to this day have no comparison to any pizza I ever have eaten.. simply none better... marios..

    damn...
    A fucking men.

    We had the same thing in Fla.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlaw View Post
    Now I will say this and fly in the face of everyone else's responses. This guy worked for this company fully knowing what their policy was. He chose to violate that policy and therefore should have been prepared to face the chance of being fired if he was found violating the policy.
    I agree 100%.

    He took a job and agreed to abide by their policy. As long as that policy is not illegal, he has no recourse.

    I say that having worked for a couple years in college as a delivery guy for one of the big 3 pizza joints, and willfully violating that policy just about every day I worked

    I always figured I'd rather lose my job than my life.

    However, with that said...it would be GREAT if the masses would refuse to eat Pizza Hut on the principle that one of their policies is not only stupid, it is dangerous...and let them know why they aren't eating there any more.
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  19. #19
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    It's not like he had a $250,000 a year job as a neuro-surgeon.. He can find another job..

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXCharlie View Post
    I would agree with that, only because it's not legally possible for a security guard to carry a gun unless his employer agrees to allow it (no matter what his level of training).

    In the case of the delivery man, however, the State Legislature has probably deemed that an employer's permission is neither required nor relevant for a regular CHL/CCW employee to legally carry a gun when not on the employer's property according to criminal law (if it's anything like Texas).

    If it's a case of an employee pulling the gun out and showing people for the hell of it, then I'd say fire him - but I would put up an argument that if the employee defended himself, then the brandishing was involuntary, and should be ignored by the employer, based on decency and common sense.

    Sure, the recourse an employer would have is to fire the employee if it becomes known (the ONLY recourse), and I would not put up a legal argument against their right to do that on the employer's property, in casual circumstances, because then it falls under criminal trespass if they provided legally-compliant notice - But this was not a casual circumstance, it was a life-threatening circumstance.

    Criminally it's none of an employer's business unless they provide official properly worded notice beforehand, and the employee is carrying on their premises (except for the parking lot, which is normally excluded from the definition of premises unless it has signage too).

    I have worked for employers who said "no guns" in their official HR policy, but purposefully used non-compliant wording to allow licensed individuals to carry (especially managers and supervisors). One of my employers even had non-compliant signs everywhere, but Security told me to just ignore them if I'm licensed.

    If the notice used non-compliant wording I ignore it, and I would put up the legal argument that the policy contract's wording and/or method of delivery was contrary to state law requirements for notice to CHL holders.

    Even having been given proper notice, a civil jury might still agree with me that the company attempted to violate my civil rights by illegal coresion for threatening to fire me in official policy, if I only pulled my gun in clear self-defense - in which case my right to life would override any company's rights to regulate my behavior, on or off of their property.

    This is another area I hope the Supreme Court clears up, but I have no confidence that they will.
    TXCharlie I agree that this is not a criminal issue and that as far as criminally weather or not he carried is none of the companies business this is a policy issue he knew what the policy was violated it even though he was with in the law he must stand and face the actions that follow.

    As I said the policy itself make no difference and I agree that he did the right thing if he feared for his life but that does not excuse his violation of policy.

    There is two totally different things going on One is criminal which he did nothing wrong and the other is an internal(civil) which he violated.

    I am glad this man is able to go home at the end of the night but can not give him a free pass on the policy violation.

    As far as the on or off the employers property issue it is a non-issue because he was representing the company even while off their physical property.
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