Judge wants to ban all cops from packing heat in court after one cop leaves his gun in the bathroom

**Terminator** · 10-12-08, 12:01 AM

The criminal district judges in Travis County and representatives of the sheriff's office, which provides courthouse security, next week will consider banning outside law enforcement officers from bringing guns into the Blackwell-Thurman Criminal Justice Center downtown.
State District Judge Julie Kocurek said she suggested the discussion after an Austin police officer left a loaded gun in a public bathroom outside her courtroom Sept. 24. The gunwas found and secured by a pair of felony defendants, Kocurek said. The gun was safely recovered by the officer, who is now the subject of an internal affairs investigation.
"It could have been very tragic," Kocurek said. "We were very fortunate."
The proposal comes as a man is on trial in Atlanta over a 2005 courthouse shooting that led to debates at courthouses across the nation on the merits of allowing law enforcement to carry guns inside. Brian Nichols is accused of taking a gun from a sheriff's deputy when he was in custody facing rape charges and using it to kill the deputy, a judge and a court reporter.
In an unsettling incident in Travis County this week, officials say members of a murder defendant's family tried to force their way toward the defendant and prosecutors near the judge's bench. No guns were drawn in that incident in state District Judge Wilford Flowers' court, but pepper spray was used by deputies to restore order.
Members of the public are prohibited from bringing guns into the Travis County courthouse and are screened for weapons at the entrance, but law enforcement officers — who visit to testify, to get warrants signed by judges or for other reasons — are allowed to keep their weapons.
Kocurek suggested that the county could institute a system similar to Austin's federal courthouse, where outside law enforcement officers put their guns in lockers by the door. That would leave sheriff's deputies who work in the courts as the only ones carrying guns.
Sheriff's office spokesman Roger Wade said the office is always willing to discuss security improvements with the judges but said it is ultimately the sheriff's call on whether to ban guns.
Wade said the decision on whether to allow guns is made statewide based on each individual courthouse's characteristics. Law enforcement in Hays and Williamson counties are allowed to bring guns into court.
Wuthipong "Tank" Tantaksinanukij, vice president of the Austin Police Association, said that stopping outside law enforcement from bringing guns into the courthouse would be a mistake that would reduce courthouse security.
"The officer (who left his gun in the bathroom) made a mistake and if they do that it's a knee-jerk reaction," he said. Tantaksinanukij said the department is addressing the issue by training officers to better secure their guns.
In the Sept. 24 incident, an Austin officer identified by defense lawyers as Jason Bryant was waiting to testify on the seventh floor of the criminal justice center in a drug possession trial. Police Chief Art Acevedo said the officer removed his gun while going to the bathroom and left it in a stall.
Kocurek said she had a busy docket that morning. She said a defendant facing a drug possession charge in her court found the gun. He did not speak English, though, and pointed it out to another defendant, who was facing a felony charge of driving while intoxication. While the first defendant kept anyone from going near the gun, the other defendant tracked down a sheriff's deputy.
By the time a deputy got to the bathroom, Bryant had realized his gun was gone and returned to the bathroom to retrieve it, Acevedo said.
It was out of his possession for only a few minutes, Acevedo said.
Kocurek said she scolded Bryant for the lapse later that morning when he came to her court to apologize.
"It's frightening," said lawyer Alberto Garcia, who represented the drug defendant who found the gun. "All it takes is for that one fellow who really has it out for a judge or a prosecutor or his own attorney ... to find the gun."
County Court-at-Law Judge Elisabeth Earle recalled that several years ago an Austin officer left his gun in a bathroom in a secured area near her courtroom while he was testifying. Earle did not recall the officer's name but said that he left his gun in a bathroom adjacent to the jury room during a trial. A janitor found the gun and reported it to court personnel, she said.
Earle said she favors limiting the number of people who have guns in the courthouse.
Hector Gomez, the supervisory deputy U.S. marshal in Austin, said that only his officers are allowed to have guns in federal court, something that cuts out any confusion that might arise in an emergency situation.
"We don't know who every officer is. They change their appearance, they transfer," he said, noting that officers don't wear uniforms in federal court. "We need to tell cop from criminal."
State District Judge Bob Perkins said that allowing outside law enforcement made sense before the sheriff's office began to screen people for guns at the courthouse door in the 1990s. "Now," he said, "you already have armed guards there at the door."
Defense lawyer Viktor Olavson, whose client reported the gun left by Bryant to deputies, suggested that even sheriff's deputies should not carry guns, as is the case in some courthouses. That would eliminate the chance of a similar incident as the Atlanta courthouse shooting.
"What is the use of having a gun?" he asked. "If some crazy lunatic grabs one of those guns he can then shoot people. If nobody has a gun what is a crazy lunatic going to do? Beat somebody up? He will be outnumbered in no time and nobody would be shot."

**MacLean** · 10-12-08, 04:58 AM

I predict a slowdown in court attendance.

**Pinki** · 10-12-08, 08:02 AM

Good grief. I'm tired of all the gun banning nonsense.

**lewisipso** · 10-12-08, 09:39 AM

"What is the use of having a gun?" he asked. "If some crazy lunatic grabs one of those guns he can then shoot people. If nobody has a gun what is a crazy lunatic going to do? Beat somebody up? He will be outnumbered in no time and nobody would be shot."

How freaking stupid does a person have to be? Oh wait, never mind, I see he's an attorney. (Defense lawyer Viktor Olavson)
What is this jackass going to do when a defendant brings their own weapon to the courthouse? Oh that's what the uniformed human shields must be for so he can run and hide. Pardon my stupidity. And besides, how is banning guns from the courtroom going to help with guns in the bathroom issue? Shouldn't they ban guns from the bathroom? (Hey I gotta piece can you hold my piss? uh I mean I gotta piss can you hold my piece?)

**CTR man** · 10-12-08, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Terminator

Kocurek said she had a busy docket that morning. She said a defendant facing a drug possession charge in her court found the gun. He did not speak English, though, and pointed it out to another defendant, who was facing a felony charge of driving while intoxication. While the first defendant kept anyone from going near the gun, the other defendant tracked down a sheriff's deputy.

By the time a deputy got to the bathroom, Bryant had realized his gun was gone and returned to the bathroom to retrieve it, Acevedo said.

It was out of his possession for only a few minutes, Acevedo said.

Kocurek said she scolded Bryant for the lapse later that morning when he came to her court to apologize.

"It's frightening," said lawyer Alberto Garcia, who represented the drug defendant who found the gun. "All it takes is for that one fellow who really has it out for a judge or a prosecutor or his own attorney ... to find the gun."

Thank God that these men realized the situation for what it was and handled this in the right way. We all know that it could have gone much differently.

This judge is going way overboard in my opinion. If I was in the courtroom and all hell broke loose I would want as many guns (in the proper hands, of course) to protect me from the idiot scumbags who have an axe to grind.

**CTR man** · 10-12-08, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by lewisipso

(Hey I gotta piece can you hold my piss? uh I mean I gotta piss can you hold my piece?)

That was good, lewis.

**Captain America** · 10-12-08, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by lewisipso

"What is the use of having a gun?" he asked. "If some crazy lunatic grabs one of those guns he can then shoot people. If nobody has a gun what is a crazy lunatic going to do? Beat somebody up? He will be outnumbered in no time and nobody would be shot."

How freaking stupid does a person have to be? Oh wait, never mind, I see he's an attorney. (Defense lawyer Viktor Olavson)
What is this jackass going to do when a defendant brings their own weapon to the courthouse? Oh that's what the uniformed human shields must be for so he can run and hide. Pardon my stupidity. And besides, how is banning guns from the courtroom going to help with guns in the bathroom issue? Shouldn't they ban guns from the bathroom? (Hey I gotta piece can you hold my piss? uh I mean I gotta piss can you hold my piece?)

I almost pissed myself laughing.

**Xiphos** · 10-12-08, 01:21 PM

Not surprising.

The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheepdog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.

Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn’t tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, “Baa.”

**Jenna** · 10-12-08, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Xiphos

Not surprising.

The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheepdog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.

Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn’t tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, “Baa.”

Not all sheep have such a baaaaaad ideas.

But many unfortunately do, like the judges and attorneys in this case. Most of them have probably made a careless mistake at some point too--why not ban all lawyers from possessing legal documents if one of them leaves a document in the restroom?

**Motorwaycop** · 10-12-08, 03:43 PM

Must be something about toilets!

Loaded police gun found in cafe

A police firearms officer left a gun in the toilets of a coffee shop where it was found by a member of the public, the Metropolitan Police (Met) has said.
The loaded firearm was left inside a branch of Starbucks in Edgware Road, central London, last Friday.
The female officer concerned has now been removed from operational duties while an investigation is carried out.
The pistol was linked to her when police compared its serial number with those logged at a police armoury.
A Met Police spokesman said: "A police-issue firearm was left unattended in a central London cafe on 29 August and was found by a member of the public. "The weapon belongs to a Metropolitan Police authorised firearms officer who was on duty at the time." An investigation is being carried out by the force's Directorate of Professional Standards.

**MacLean** · 10-12-08, 04:14 PM

It's the little hook in the stall.

I have actually had to argue with people who believe that is ok.

**Jenna** · 10-12-08, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by maclean

It's the little hook in the stall.

I have actually had to argue with people who believe that is ok.

How about banning little hooks in stalls? Problem solved!

**pgg** · 10-12-08, 05:10 PM

They suggested that here once. All LE stated they would refuse to show up. Needless to say it never went further after that. When they first instituted the metal detector at the entrance they (private security) would try and stop off-duty officers from coming in armed. They stopped me once. I called the Chief who called the D.A. and in about 1 minute I was in and about 15 bailiffs were chewing a guards ass.