Welcome to the APBWeb.

View Poll Results: What do you think about this proposed law?

Voters
12. You may not vote on this poll
  • Good idea, some people shouldn't be allowed to breed

    8 66.67%
  • Bad idea, who is the government to decide who is unfit to parent

    4 33.33%
Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1
    Terminator's Avatar
    Terminator is offline BANNED
    Join Date
    12-03-05
    Location
    None of your business
    Posts
    16,064
    Rep Power
    0

    Netherlands may soon force "unfit mothers" to take contraception

    Women in the Netherlands deemed "unfit mothers" may soon be forced to take contraception, if a draft bill currently before the Dutch parliament is passed. The bill "targets women who have been the subject of judicial intervention due to their bad parenting," says its author, a member of the Netherlands' socialist Labour Party.
    Under the proposed legislation, a woman judged unfit who refuses to take contraception and becomes pregnant would have her child taken away at birth. The infant then would be placed in a foster home.

    While it's certain that such a measure could potentially prevent convicted child abusers from conceiving and abusing more children, many questions have been raised about the draft bill's potential impact on human rights in the Netherlands.

    Disabled mothers already face a worldwide uphill battle for the right to bear children. Earlier this year, "K.E.J.," a woman with developmental disabilities, was taken to court by her own aunt, who wanted K.E.J. to be sterilized against her will. K.E.J. won her court battle. But would a woman with similar disabilities be judged unfit under the proposed Dutch system? What about a woman who could not care for a child due to a mental illness like post-partum depression, but who has entered a treatment program and wants to try again?

    The bill does not appear to include any prohibitions against discrimination based on disability, except that parents who have not yet raised a child and been judged unfit based on the way in which they parented that child would not be affected. Therefore, women would not be put on court-ordered contraception before having their first child.

    The draft bill, if passed, could also negatively impact women's rights in the Netherlands. It does not include any provision that would place similar restrictions on the reproductive rights of fathers.

    What do you think? Should the Dutch state be able to force women who have abused or neglected previous children to take contraception? Do you think the proposed legislation would be used as a Eugenic measure to prevent women with disabilities from having children?

  2. #2
    phantasm is offline Corporal
    Verified LEO
    Join Date
    01-21-07
    Posts
    1,360
    Rep Power
    403369
    While I do feel that some people shouldn't produce offspring, I believe its not the government's place to decide. I actually had a similar conversation recently.

  3. #3
    Shoestring's Avatar
    Shoestring is offline Please dont check the trunk...
    Verified LEO
    Authorized Vendor
    Join Date
    09-20-07
    Location
    Madison ish, WI
    Posts
    2,799
    Rep Power
    799034
    Are you kidden, some should have no right, especially those who are already a burden on our country (mind you I am going into another aspect of this issue that is not covered in teh article). I have to pay for my house, food, car, wife who likes to spend, kids, dog, fence, but its alright for Crackhead to get high, steal from us, let us feed them, house them, and then we are suppose to support their child when they get knocked up from their next screw for dope.......

    F THAT
    Somebody Please, what the hell is that smell?

    "The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an eggs-and-ham breakfast: the chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

    The views, opinions, stupid off the cuff comments, mouthy, obnoxious, thoughtless, etc etc etc are not always or even some of the time the belief of my department, so bugger off!

  4. #4
    Xiphos's Avatar
    Xiphos is online now I Void Warranties
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    03-09-08
    Location
    Thermopylae
    Posts
    8,378
    Rep Power
    7772239
    Granted some people are messed up and shouldn't be parents but that's what the courts and foster care are for. Chemical contraception has many negative side effects, including death in some cases.

    I also find it chilling when the government decides who can have kids and who has to be forced to to contracept. What happens when the government decides Christians have too many children? The whole idea is terrible. Gattica anyone? No thanks.
    Pleasing nobody, one person at a time.

    That which does not kill me, better start fucking running.

    If I lived every day like it was my last, the body count would be staggering.

    I intend to go in harm's way. -John Paul Jones

    Hunt the wolf, and bring light to the dark places that others fear to go. LT COL Dave Grossman

  5. #5
    Shoestring's Avatar
    Shoestring is offline Please dont check the trunk...
    Verified LEO
    Authorized Vendor
    Join Date
    09-20-07
    Location
    Madison ish, WI
    Posts
    2,799
    Rep Power
    799034
    Quote Originally Posted by Xiphos View Post
    I also find it chilling when the government decides who can have kids and who has to be forced to to contracept. What happens when the government decides Christians have too many children? The whole idea is terrible. Gattica anyone? No thanks.
    Thats called China
    Somebody Please, what the hell is that smell?

    "The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an eggs-and-ham breakfast: the chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

    The views, opinions, stupid off the cuff comments, mouthy, obnoxious, thoughtless, etc etc etc are not always or even some of the time the belief of my department, so bugger off!

  6. #6
    Ryan's Avatar
    Ryan is offline Bust a move
    Supporting Member Lvl 3
    Join Date
    08-01-07
    Posts
    489
    Rep Power
    137403
    While I see the "pandora's box" possibility of this situation, I think it is perfectly acceptable to tell a woman who has proven she will not take care of her children that she must take contraception. It is the perfect solution. How many times have you thought, "Why are these people allowed to still breed?"? I have done that many many times. When considering this situation only, I think this idea is not only acceptable but it is awesome!
    "The inherent vice of Capitalism is the unequal sharing of its blessings; the inherent vice of Socialism is the equal sharing of its miseries." -Winston Churchill

  7. #7
    Pinki's Avatar
    Pinki is offline Sergeant
    Supporting Member Lvl 2
    Join Date
    12-22-06
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,729
    Rep Power
    462843
    It may not be the 'nicest' idea, but I have to say I'm for it. I choose not to reproduce and I'm tired of bearing the burden for people who in some cases continue to have more children so they can receive more public assistance. It's got to stop somewhere.
    Arm the sheep!

  8. #8
    jmur5074's Avatar
    jmur5074 is offline Moderator
    Premium Lifetime Member
    Verified LEO
    Site Moderator
    Join Date
    12-04-05
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    9,051
    Rep Power
    6232622
    I love it!!!!



    There are some people who have proven they can not take care of themselves, let alone their children. If you see it as an infringement on the woman's rights, consider the rights, and the life of any further future children she may have. How many kids have you met that are some crack head 2nd, 3rd, 4th kid, who hasn't had a chance at life since the day he/she was conceived?
    No one has greater love than this, to lay down ones life for ones friends - John 15:13

    "The Wicked Flee When No Man Pursueth: But The Righteous Are Bold As A Lion".

    We lucky few, we band of brothers. For he who today sheds his blood with me shall be my brother.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~
    The opinions, beliefs, and ideas expressed in this post are mine, and mine alone. They are NOT the opinions, beliefs, ideas, or policies of my Agency, Police Chief, City Council, or any member of my department.

  9. #9
    Terminator's Avatar
    Terminator is offline BANNED
    Join Date
    12-03-05
    Location
    None of your business
    Posts
    16,064
    Rep Power
    0
    It sounds great in theory, but the reality is the government has no business making this decision.

  10. #10
    CTR man's Avatar
    CTR man is offline Officer First Class
    Supporting Member Lvl 3
    Join Date
    05-20-06
    Location
    Ceres, CA
    Posts
    4,965
    Rep Power
    1169036
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinki View Post
    It may not be the 'nicest' idea, but I have to say I'm for it. I choose not to reproduce and I'm tired of bearing the burden for people who in some cases continue to have more children so they can receive more public assistance. It's got to stop somewhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by jmur5074 View Post
    I love it!!!!

    There are some people who have proven they can not take care of themselves, let alone their children. If you see it as an infringement on the woman's rights, consider the rights, and the life of any further future children she may have. How many kids have you met that are some crack head 2nd, 3rd, 4th kid, who hasn't had a chance at life since the day he/she was conceived?
    Agreed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Terminator View Post
    It sounds great in theory, but the reality is the government has no business making this decision.
    You may be right, Term, but what do you or others think about the pedophiles, and rapists that are continually being released back into society? Because someone thinks they have been rehabilitated? Should they be forced into contraception as a condition of their release? Children have been born from these encounters. too.

    Personally I think that these types of people cannot ever be rehabilitated and at the very least, should never be released, but it happens all too frequently just to have them reoffend again.


    Choose The Right. When you're doing whats right, then you have nothing to worry about.

    Not a LEO

    In memory of Sgt. Howard K. Stevenson 1965 - 2005. Ceres Police Dept.
    In memory of Robert N. Panos 1955 - 2008 Ceres Police Dept.









  11. #11
    Terminator's Avatar
    Terminator is offline BANNED
    Join Date
    12-03-05
    Location
    None of your business
    Posts
    16,064
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by CTR man View Post
    You may be right, Term, but what do you or others think about the pedophiles, and rapists that are continually being released back into society? Because someone thinks they have been rehabilitated? Should they be forced into contraception as a condition of their release? Children have been born from these encounters. too.

    Personally I think that these types of people cannot ever be rehabilitated and at the very least, should never be released, but it happens all too frequently just to have them reoffend again.
    The above has absolutely nothing to do with the government telling people they cannot breed. You may not like it, but it's wrong for the government to tell people they cannot have children. Do you really trust the government that much? To let them determine if YOU are allowed to have children? What would there guidelines be and who would monitor that? When does the control over decisions in my personal life stop? Can they tell me if I'm allowed to masterbate next? I mean, this is the same government who has fucked up greatly and many times over in my lifetime. They intrude in my life enough, I don't need them intruding anymore!

  12. #12
    MacLean's Avatar
    MacLean is offline O/R Gun mod
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    09-05-07
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    11,802
    Rep Power
    4584772
    “You can protect your liberties in this world only by protecting the other man's freedom. You can be free only if I am free.”
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  13. #13
    TXCharlie's Avatar
    TXCharlie is offline Former & Future Reserve Officer
    Join Date
    12-29-05
    Location
    Dallas Area
    Posts
    5,528
    Rep Power
    3224964
    I think it's perfectly OK to PAY them to take the contraceptives - That could be in the form of denying them welfare unless they take them. or even having it as a condition of probation/parole for other crimes .

    But it would be chilling to think about the government forcing them to take it - Like Term, I don't that should be something that the government gets to decide.

    It could blossom into the government preventing poor people from having children, people who are disabled, and ultimately people who spank their kids or teach them to have a mind of their own. It could set a very dangerous precident.

    (\__/)
    (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
    (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

  14. #14
    CTR man's Avatar
    CTR man is offline Officer First Class
    Supporting Member Lvl 3
    Join Date
    05-20-06
    Location
    Ceres, CA
    Posts
    4,965
    Rep Power
    1169036
    Quote Originally Posted by Terminator View Post
    The above has absolutely nothing to do with the government telling people they cannot breed. You may not like it, but it's wrong for the government to tell people they cannot have children. Do you really trust the government that much? To let them determine if YOU are allowed to have children? What would there guidelines be and who would monitor that? When does the control over decisions in my personal life stop? Can they tell me if I'm allowed to masterbate next? I mean, this is the same government who has fucked up greatly and many times over in my lifetime. They intrude in my life enough, I don't need them intruding anymore!
    Remember this is the Netherlands that is quoted in the article. Don't they want to legalize drugs, too? Or are they trying to be Communist like China? Is this Socialism? The Author is a member of the Netherlands socialist labor party.

    The minute when our government tries to tell everyone how many children they can have then we will be just like China. We as a nation are better than that.

    As a matter of fact, I don't place that much trust in them. Like you said, they have screwed up way too much. Everyone has their free agency. In a sense, wasn't this the reason why this country was started because of the government at that time was intruding upon people's lives? As to guidelines and monitors, I have no idea. Besides voting out or not voting for those that keep screwing up.

    I don't think the government should be allowed to intrude on anyone's life until it has been proven that they can't conform to society. Since you appear to be able to, they should damn well stay out of your business.


    Choose The Right. When you're doing whats right, then you have nothing to worry about.

    Not a LEO

    In memory of Sgt. Howard K. Stevenson 1965 - 2005. Ceres Police Dept.
    In memory of Robert N. Panos 1955 - 2008 Ceres Police Dept.









 

 

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •