Firefighters hot over police ploy

**Cidp24** · 03-09-09, 09:56 AM

Firefighters hot over police ploy
By TOM FAHEY
State House Bureau Chief
Saturday, Mar. 7, 2009

CONCORD – Firefighter groups said yesterday they don't want a repeat of a Newport incident where police disguised themselves as firefighters to make an arrest.
Portsmouth Fire Chief Christopher LeClaire said it's important that firefighters always be seen as rescuers, not as threats or adversaries.
"Not to Monday-morning quarterback," he said, "but when the line gets blurred, it creates a very dangerous situation for us." Police used a fire truck and firemen's outfits Tuesday night to trick Matthew Miller, 34, into leaving his apartment on Sunapee Street so they could arrest him.
The incident began when Miller allegedly pointed a shotgun at the chest of a lone police officer who responded to a noise complaint. The officer left, and planning to arrest Miller began.
Police say Miller is a convicted felon and has a history of violent behavior. He was in the apartment with a 1-year-old and a woman, and police said they recovered several weapons at the scene.
►Police use firefighter fake-out to arrest man (57)
"Police officers dressed as firefighters and using a fire truck entered the building and activated the fire alarm to evacuate residents in a safe manner so as not to bring attention to the pending arrest of Miller," Newport Police Chief David Hoyt said in a news release issued Wednesday.
Hoyt and Fire Chief Wayne Conroy said they agreed on use of fire gear, but members of three firefighting groups criticized the action.
They said use of their gear to make arrests puts all firefighters in jeopardy when they respond to fires and rescue situations. They have asked Attorney General Kelly Ayotte and Commissioner of Safety John Barthelmes to convene a meeting to set clear guidelines for the future.
Portsmouth Fire Chief Christopher LeClaire speaks at yesterday's news conference against the use of police disguised as firefighters to defuse a standoff. (AP)
David Lang, president of the Professional Fire Fighters of New Hampshire, was most critical.
"The use of the firefighter and paramedic image in this way is inappropriate, should not be condoned and is not negotiable," he said.
Hoyt defended his decision. Given circumstances, he said, he faced the possibility of a police officer or innocent bystanders being shot or killed. He said Miller was still in jail in lieu of bail yesterday.
LeClaire, who is president of the Seacoast Chief Fire Officers Association, said he understands the spot Hoyt was in. But he said there is a rising number of incidents nationwide in which firefighters have been shot when responding to emergencies.
The group also criticized police for pulling a fire alarm to clear the apartment building, but it's not clear an alarm was actually pulled.
Conroy said no alarm was pulled that night, contradicting a statement in the police news release.
Chris Christopoulos, president of the New Hampshire Association of Fire Chiefs, said false alarms can "create an attitude among the public that fire alarms are false alarms, and not evacuate a building."
Conroy said he and Hoyt spent an hour discussing how to handle the situation. He said he, a fire captain and four officers arrived in a fire department car and truck. They went directly to the apartment in question, on the pretext of investigating the smell of gas fumes. He estimated it took 90 seconds from their arrival to the arrest.
"I think the whole thing has been blown out of proportion," Conroy said. "I wish people would make sure they know the whole situation before making a mountain out something small."
Ayotte said she plans to bring the parties together soon.
"It's important that we get a common understanding as to what is appropriate," she said. "We should remember that police and firefighters are all focused on protecting people and saving lives."
Maj. Robert Stafford, assistant director of the Police Standards and Training council, said his agency provides basic training to police, and it is up to individual departments to provide training on responses to situations like the Newport incident.
Barthelmes said he thinks it's important for all sides to meet and to clear the air.
"Certainly there are ruses that are used and are valuable," he said. "In this case, it certainly worked with a positive outcome. The discussion has to be about whether that's something that should be embraced in future."
Guy Newberry, a battalion chief with the Concord Fire Department, said firefighters across the state are smarting about the Newport incident. Firefighters, he said, are in and out of houses, and there has to be an atmosphere of trust between the homeowner and rescue workers.
"We're not armed; we're no threat to them," he said.
He said firefighters report any evidence of child abuse they see, but "we'll sometimes turn a blind eye" toward evidence of drug crimes

I thought it was a pretty inventive tactic.

**Xiphos** · 03-09-09, 11:53 AM

Firefighters are worried about their job being dangerous?

As long as this isn't a common tactic they'll be fine. Police have used UPS and pizza delivery drivers as ruses and they aren't being slaughtered because people think they're cops.

**ex401mp** · 03-09-09, 12:23 PM

THEY ARE MAD ABOUT THAT?

So fucking what, who gives a shit what they are mad about. Tell them to keep making their calendars and whatever and STFU!

**Hondo** · 03-09-09, 01:26 PM

Weed beaters are upset!!!

**Captain America** · 03-09-09, 02:52 PM

Portsmouth Fire Chief Christopher LeClaire said it's important that firefighters always be seen as rescuers, not as threats or adversaries.

Chief LeClaire , let me offer you my ass to kiss.

**sweetpea** · 03-09-09, 02:57 PM

LOL , Can't we all get along

**Retdetsgt** · 03-09-09, 03:01 PM

Is anybody really surprised to read this?

**pgg** · 03-09-09, 04:44 PM

I've never met a Methhead or a Pothead that didn't see a Firefighter or EMS as a threat. During our lightning complex fires last year firefighters were being shot at by the pot growers.

**Morris** · 03-09-09, 04:52 PM

It's funny when the wildland fire hose draggers have you work security in the remote areas where the grow ops are . . .

**Five-0** · 03-09-09, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by pgg

During our lightning complex fires last year firefighters were being shot at by the pot growers.

Over watering the plants is bad ummmkay.

**Captain America** · 03-09-09, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by sweetpea

LOL , Can't we all get along

No.....

Originally Posted by Retdetsgt

Is anybody really surprised to read this?

and no.
I've gone into a burning house before and rescued or attempted to rescue people. I've extinguished several fires before a fireman showed his ass on the scene. I have never seen a fireman stop a violent crime in progress or take a murderer or rapist off the streets. I don't take kindly to Chief Leclaire talking like firefighters are lifesavers and cops are the SS. I would be the first to admit a huge amount of respect for most firefighters and all first responders in general as we our all on the same team , but I am a little sick of BULLSHIT statements like that. Too many LEOs have been injured or killled PROTECTING the public to let that slide.

**lewisipso** · 03-09-09, 07:00 PM

**Second Chance** · 03-09-09, 07:07 PM

You just knew that was coming................

**TXCharlie** · 03-09-09, 07:35 PM

They don't get shot at very often anyway - they stage two blocks away until the police say it's safe.

Besides, whoever walks into a burning building has a lot more to be worried about than someone taking pot shots at them - And if they're seen as possibly being armed, then they may be LESS likely to get shot at.

**CTR man** · 03-09-09, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by sweetpea

LOL , Can't we all get along

There goes Rodney King again.

**Jks9199** · 03-10-09, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by Xiphos

Firefighters are worried about their job being dangerous?

As long as this isn't a common tactic they'll be fine. Police have used UPS and pizza delivery drivers as ruses and they aren't being slaughtered because people think they're cops.

C'mon... the foundation savors have a dangerous job, too. They might trip getting out of bed and or the easy chair... and there's the ever-present danger of repetitive stress injuries from waxing the firetruck.

(Actually, I must say that in my neck of the woods, we get along well with the fire department.)

They do have a valid point... but I also think it's a pretty good tactic. Got the guy out of the place without anyone getting hurt. Which is the point, right? And the places that are likely to attack the firefighters probably didn't need this as a reason...

**TXCharlie** · 03-10-09, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Jks9199

the places that are likely to attack the firefighters probably didn't need this as a reason...

Exactly!

Also, as far as reporting evidence of serious criminal acts or contraban that they see, I would hope that all firefighters would do that anyway - If they don't report it to the police, I think they should be fired.

**AZInterceptor** · 03-11-09, 02:23 PM

I don't agree with the tactic for a a couple of reasons, with that said, FF's always talk about brotherhood between the public servants, "brotherhood this and brotherhood that" - but then we get this...
"He said firefighters report any evidence of child abuse they see, but "we'll sometimes turn a blind eye" toward evidence of drug crimes"

Hey, thanks for the help guys! So much for brotherhood.

**TXPO710** · 03-11-09, 02:58 PM

Hey, just remember that those are the big city, paid chiefs talking. But as a volunteer FF myself I can see the point, I wouldn't want BGs thinking I was armed...oh, wait...I am armed...never mind

Seriously, I have a lock box in the engine in case I have to go in otherwise I carry. I'm a FF and PD, I'm everybodies hero!!

**TXCharlie** · 03-11-09, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by TXPO710

Seriously, I have a lock box in the engine in case I have to go in otherwise I carry. I'm a FF and PD, I'm everybodies hero!!

I never understood why firefighters can't carry concealed if they're licensed and they have a secure locking holster that won't allow the gun to fall out if it's hit - And since you're LEO, then doubly so.

If the fire gets hot enough to cook off rounds while the gun is under your coat, I think at that point, your goose would probably be cooked anyway.