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  1. #1
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    Police cars get 'black boxes' to reduce crashes

    Police cars getting fitted with 'black boxes' to reduce crashes


    POLICE cars are being fitted with 'black box-type' data recorders in a bid to reduce the number of accidents involving them.

    The move, costing 150,000, follows a successful trial in a response car at Radford Road police station in Hyson Green.

    Sergeant Paul Hancock, who is managing the project, said: "It will make crash investigations shorter as information such as vehicle speed will be more easily available.

    "Other forces have found that using the recorders brought the number of accidents and collisions involving their vehicles down 20 to 25%."

    The devices will be fitted first in response cars in City Division and advanced drivers working out of other Divisions. They will be installed in 50 vehicles in all.

    John Clarke, chairman of Notts Police Authority, said: "This is a very good idea as it will tighten up our officers' driving, knowing that it's being monitored.

    "A few years back the force had a horrendous record on accidents. It's getting much better now. I think this will also provide important information and reassurance to the courts."

    Sgt Hancock said the data recorder has attracted interest from the Metropolitan Police in London and Dorset Police, who are looking to update their analysis of accidents involving their vehicles.

    The new black box data recorders are also backed by the Notts Police Federation.
    Mick Taylor, chairman of the Federation, said: "I think it will help reduce the number of compensation payouts the force has to make as the boxes will provide more accurate information for crash investigators.

    "The boxes are a bit like speed cameras. People don't necessarily like them but they are effective in making drivers drive more carefully."
    "all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" Edmund Burke.
    "the world is a dangerous place place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who do not do anything about it" Albert Einstein

  2. #2
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    HA. They came up with that idea here back in the late 70's. That was the closest I've even seen a decent sized police dept nearly go into open rebellion. We pretty much let it be known that we would drive the speed limit to every call no matter how serious it was if those things were put in and many of the boxes no doubt get inadvertently damaged.

    The city backed off.

    They were able to sell the GPS idea since officer safety was involved, but the boxes would be there for no reason other than to hang us out to dry.
    When I used to be somebody (I'm center top)

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    Way, way back, we had a device that actually printed on a round piece of graph paper. The paper represented an 8 hour shift, and the pens on the paper recorded speed, emergency equipment status, engine idle time, and how long the engine was on or off. They must have been pretty delicate because they stayed broken a lot.
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  4. #4
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    Old news where I work.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cidp24 View Post
    Way, way back, we had a device that actually printed on a round piece of graph paper. The paper represented an 8 hour shift, and the pens on the paper recorded speed, emergency equipment status, engine idle time, and how long the engine was on or off. They must have been pretty delicate because they stayed broken a lot.
    That's exactly what they wanted to put in here, but backed off. I don't think I've ever seen the guys on my dept more united than they were against that.
    When I used to be somebody (I'm center top)

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  6. #6
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    All Ford vehicles have such capability now, and most GM's.

    It isn't just a police car thing, but there is notice of it in the operators manual.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    All Ford vehicles have such capability now, and most GM's.

    It isn't just a police car thing, but there is notice of it in the operators manual.

    In the 2000 Camaros it is under the center console. Found it when I was swapping out the shifter. It might still work.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    In the 2000 Camaros it is under the center console. Found it when I was swapping out the shifter. It might still work.
    On top of the standard equipment, or MDC's have a gps vehicle locator that maps us out, including speed, etc.

    You'd be amazed at how hard it is to keep that usb port plugged in. No joke, after time the port gets loose and you constantly hear it connecting and disconnecting to the computer.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    All Ford vehicles have such capability now, and most GM's.

    It isn't just a police car thing, but there is notice of it in the operators manual.
    The Ford and GM modules are recording the information needed to make the decision on whether to deploy airbags and pretensioners. The GM modules do include speed, brake position, and throttle position up to 5 seconds before the accident. The Ford does not record speed or throttle position and is only a few milliseconds of data during the accident. The main thing it records is delta-v or change in G forces to help it decide whether to deploy the safety devices. These devices are for vehicle engineers to analyze how their equipment performs in a wreck. Insurance and LE can get access to it but it's very limited in its usefullness for accident reconstruction.

    A "black box" is going to record far more data solely for the purposes of accident reconstruction.
    Pleasing nobody, one person at a time.

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    In the 2000 Camaros it is under the center console. Found it when I was swapping out the shifter. It might still work.
    If you disabled it you disabled your airbags and pretensioners. It's the module that deploys that stuff. It is not a "black box." It may record the decision process during an accident but it's volatile and its purpose is not to make the recording. That's bonus for analyzing how the equipment performed.
    Pleasing nobody, one person at a time.

    That which does not kill me, better start fucking running.

    If I lived every day like it was my last, the body count would be staggering.

    I intend to go in harm's way. -John Paul Jones

    Hunt the wolf, and bring light to the dark places that others fear to go. LT COL Dave Grossman

  11. #11
    Five-0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pudge113 View Post
    On top of the standard equipment, or MDC's have a gps vehicle locator that maps us out, including speed, etc.

    You'd be amazed at how hard it is to keep that usb port plugged in. No joke, after time the port gets loose and you constantly hear it connecting and disconnecting to the computer.

    That's a violation of policy around here Mr. Sounds like your system is like ours. Notes speed, location, emergency lights on/off, crash sensor, brakes applied or not, and engine speed. Some of the listed items actually trigger the camera system automatically. Hint, don't do donuts on duty.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    That's a violation of policy around here Mr. Sounds like your system is like ours. Notes speed, location, emergency lights on/off, crash sensor, brakes applied or not, and engine speed. Some of the listed items actually trigger the camera system automatically. Hint, don't do donuts on duty.
    It likely is a violation of one of ours too. After many I'm's from the Chief that I'm not on his map I make sure it's handled as soon as I get started. Its very unreliable. I have wasted hours changing out gps units, ports, plugs, etc just so I'd show up on the map.

    It's a good tool and has its place, but man its a pain in the ass.

    I believe we'll soon have the ability to hook our new Decatur camera system into it.

  13. #13
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    The type they wanted to put in our cars went in the trunk.

    Our GPS system doesn't record anything in the car. At radio, there is a record kept of your movements and locations, but to my knowledge none of that info has ever been used in a disciplinary matter.

    It was kind of nice, my best friend worked uniform until he retired, but was in a division that traveled all over the city. I could sit at a computer at my office, get his location via his GPS and see if he was close enough to meet for lunch. I never heard any grumbling about the GPS, I think people were glad of it for officer safety reasons. I was nice not to have to broadcast your location when something hit the fan.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xiphos View Post
    The Ford and GM modules are recording the information needed to make the decision on whether to deploy airbags and pretensioners. The GM modules do include speed, brake position, and throttle position up to 5 seconds before the accident. The Ford does not record speed or throttle position and is only a few milliseconds of data during the accident. The main thing it records is delta-v or change in G forces to help it decide whether to deploy the safety devices. These devices are for vehicle engineers to analyze how their equipment performs in a wreck. Insurance and LE can get access to it but it's very limited in its usefullness for accident reconstruction.

    A "black box" is going to record far more data solely for the purposes of accident reconstruction.
    The manual for my Ford Explorer says it records speed, throttle position, brake force, etc.

    Is this just a generic disclaimer?
    I'm your huckleberry...

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  15. #15
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    I think that is a generic disclaimer in case they change the capabilities of the unit they don't have to reprint their manuals.
    Pleasing nobody, one person at a time.

    That which does not kill me, better start fucking running.

    If I lived every day like it was my last, the body count would be staggering.

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  16. #16
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xiphos View Post
    I think that is a generic disclaimer in case they change the capabilities of the unit they don't have to reprint their manuals.
    Sweet!

    I actually just found the output from a Ford Explorer, and you are correct - it has deployment and Delta V.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    Sweet!

    I actually just found the output from a Ford Explorer, and you are correct - it has deployment and Delta V.
    We do downloads on our cruisers if they are totaled. They aren't much better than being able to go, "Oh look! -32G's at 42MS!"
    Pleasing nobody, one person at a time.

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    Hunt the wolf, and bring light to the dark places that others fear to go. LT COL Dave Grossman

  18. #18
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    Our cameras come on automaticaly. They record the last 30 seconds prior to emergency equipment activation, impact, or speeds above the preset, which I think is 80 mph. We also have gps on the cars.
    *************************
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