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  1. #1
    pgg's Avatar
    pgg
    pgg is offline Damnit, I'm hungry again.
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    Bible study prohibited in the home

    Couple Ordered to Stop Holding Bible Study at Home Without Permit - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com

    Couple: County Trying To Stop Home Bible Studies

    POSTED: 5:31 pm PDT May 25, 2009
    UPDATED: 1:45 pm PDT May 28, 2009


    SAN DIEGO -- A local pastor and his wife claim they were interrogated by a San Diego County official, who then threatened them with escalating fines if they continued to hold Bible studies in their home, 10News reported.

    Attorney Dean Broyles of The Western Center For Law & Policy was shocked with what happened to the pastor and his wife.

    Broyles said, "The county asked, 'Do you have a regular meeting in your home?' She said, 'Yes.' 'Do you say amen?' 'Yes.' 'Do you pray?' 'Yes.' 'Do you say praise the Lord?' 'Yes.'"

    The county employee notified the couple that the small Bible study, with an average of 15 people attending, was in violation of County regulations, according to Broyles.

    Broyles said a few days later the couple received a written warning that listed "unlawful use of land" and told them to "stop religious assembly or apply for a major use permit" -- a process that could cost tens of thousands of dollars.

    "For churches and religious assemblies there's big parking concerns, there's environmental impact concerns when you have hundreds or thousands of people gathering. But this is a different situation, and we believe that the application of the religious assembly principles to this Bible study is certainly misplaced," said Broyles.

    News of the case has rapidly spread across Internet blogs and has spurred various reactions.

    Broyles said his clients have asked to stay anonymous until they give the county a demand letter that states by enforcing this regulation the county is violating their First Amendment right to freely exercise their religion.

    Broyles also said this case has broader implications.

    "If the county thinks they can shut down groups of 10 or 15 Christians meeting in a home, what about people who meet regularly at home for poker night? What about people who meet for Tupperware parties? What about people who are meeting to watch baseball games on a regular basis and support the Chargers?" Broyles asked.

    Broyles and his clients plan to give the County their demand letter this week.

    If the County refuses to release the pastor and his wife from obtaining the permit, they will consider a lawsuit in federal court.
    'Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a
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    possible to pick up a turd by the clean end!'

    A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. Sigmund Freud

  2. #2
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    and so it begins...
    -=Twan007


    Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twan007 View Post
    and so it begins...
    Hopefully, it begins by these folks shoving up that county's ass and breaking it off.

    If all goes the way it should, it ends with a firing, an apology, and a fat donation...er... check.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
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  4. #4
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    Back to drawing half a fish in the dirt I guess.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

  5. #5
    Morris is offline Chief Wheaties Pisser
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    In San Diego, of all places!

  6. #6
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    Back to drawing half a fish in the dirt I guess.

    Sorry man, but fuck that.

    That would be so far past the line into dangerous, even for those of us who have walked away from the church.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  7. #7
    Five-0's Avatar
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    It was a joke, but don't worry I have already found a patch for just such an occasion:

    WWJS? Patch

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

  8. #8
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    Sweet!
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  9. #9
    CTR man's Avatar
    CTR man is offline Officer First Class
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    It was a joke, but don't worry I have already found a patch for just such an occasion:

    WWJS? Patch
    Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition!


    Choose The Right. When you're doing whats right, then you have nothing to worry about.

    Not a LEO

    In memory of Sgt. Howard K. Stevenson 1965 - 2005. Ceres Police Dept.
    In memory of Robert N. Panos 1955 - 2008 Ceres Police Dept.









  10. #10
    Ducky's Avatar
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    This is total BS. It's not even about Christianity, it would apply to ANY faith meeting. The only thing I can think that would have generated the complaint to begin with would have been a parking issue, as how many private residences in-city would have parking for 15 people on a regular basis? Bringing the faith aspect into it is ridiculous though. There's got to be WAY more to this story than we are aware.
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  11. #11
    Morris is offline Chief Wheaties Pisser
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    Sweet patch!

    Wonder what the chief woudl say if I went around with this t-shirt? Milspec Monkey Pork Eating Crusader TShirt

  12. #12
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducky View Post
    This is total BS. It's not even about Christianity, it would apply to ANY faith meeting.
    If you believe that, I have some bridges to sell...

    The code may be non-specific, but the enforcement clearly was. Examine the questions asked.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  13. #13
    lewisipso's Avatar
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    This would NEVER fly at my residence. If it were parking issues then address the parking issue. This is Bible study and is being restricted as such. As Maclean stated the questions are specific. The powers that be better bring plenty of ass to my house to make me or mine close my Bible.
    Do not war for peace. If you must war, war for justice. For without justice there is no peace. -me

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    R.I.P. Arielle. 08/20/2010-09/16/2012


  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by lewisipso View Post
    This would NEVER fly at my residence. If it were parking issues then address the parking issue. This is Bible study and is being restricted as such. As Maclean stated the questions are specific. The powers that be better bring plenty of ass to my house to make me or mine close my Bible.
    +1

    I hope the folks over there realize the shit storm they're about to unleash...

    The SECOND that you start taking away my GOD given freedoms... watch out - because I'm gonna protect them with every fiber of my being - period... and as Lew said - you'd better bring plenty of ass to MAKE me give them up...

    There are certain lines that you do not cross - not only is this infringement on my right to worship whomever, however - it's infringing on my right to have a lawful assembly... - let's just take that whole 1st Amendment and throw it completely out of the window... then we'll work on the 2nd...
    -=Twan007


    Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.

    Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.





    The opinions expressed by this poster are wholly his own, and should never be construed to even remotely be in alignment with his employer. Matter of fact, the poster will deny any knowledge of any post... this message will self-destruct in 5 seconds...

  15. #15
    213th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    If you believe that, I have some bridges to sell...

    The code may be non-specific, but the enforcement clearly was. Examine the questions asked.
    I think she means the reprecussions for other people, if this stand the test in court. While this situation is obviously about Christianity, it doesn't necessarily mean that future incidents would be restricted to only Christianity.
    He who has the money, signs the cheques.
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    He who makes the rules, has the power.
    He who has the power, has the money.

  16. #16
    CT209's Avatar
    CT209 is offline Once..... Forever
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    Being that CA is bankrupt, does anyone know if San Diego has any money? I can see a big payout for this.

    If I gather with friends at my house once a week to read the bible (or read Shakespeare for that matter), it's my house- screw that power-drunk official.

    Next it'll be having a BBQ and eating pork since it offends someone - or - having a BBQ and eating any kind of meat since PETA hates that.
    "When a crime is committed, liberals blame society. Conservatives blame the criminal." -Debra Saunders

    Old Scottish Motto- "nemo me impune laccessit". It still holds true today.

  17. #17
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 213th View Post
    I think she means the reprecussions for other people, if this stand the test in court. While this situation is obviously about Christianity, it doesn't necessarily mean that future incidents would be restricted to only Christianity.
    Ahh, my oversight.

    If that is what Ducky meant, then I get it.

    I read it as this incident wasn't about Christianity, and it clearly was based on the questions the county employee asked.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  18. #18
    Ducky's Avatar
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    This one instance is about Christianity, yes, but the general implication is that ANY religious meeting in a home could be targeted. That being said, I still think there's a large portion of this story missing. It's entirely possible that these people were jerks and the official responding let them get up his nose, leading to this nasty back and forth that we're seeing here. This really is only one side of the story, and we all know that each story has three sides, with the full truth being somewhere in the middle.
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  19. #19
    mack's Avatar
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    What next!!!!! This is absolutely crazy. To top it off, it appears the guy is an ordained minister but even if he wasn't what right does that county have telling these people how many people can come into their home. Jeeze, if I just have family over on Sunday your talking a minimum of 16 people and that is just the adults!

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  20. #20
    Ducky's Avatar
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    More to the story from County Official Defends Home Bible Study Citation - San Diego News Story - KGTV San Diego

    County Official Claims Home Bible Study Citation Was Not An Attack On Religious Activity

    POSTED: 5:27 pm PDT May 28, 2009
    UPDATED: 8:31 am PDT May 29, 2009
    SAN DIEGO -- A local pastor is outraged because he says the county wants to shut down his Bible study group, but the county says he has it all wrong.

    Thursday, for the first time, a San Diego County official sat down with 10News, to respond to the allegations.The story of pastor David Jones' claims against the county has grabbed national attention.

    The county official said Jones has got it all wrong and tried to explain the curious line of questioning the county had for the pastor.

    Jones said he has been hosting weekly Bible studies in his Bonita home for the past five years, but it wasn't until last month that someone complained about the sessions and county code enforcement went out to investigate.

    Every Tuesday night about 15 people drive to Jones’ Bonita home to eat dinner and discuss the Bible. They usually park on Jones' property, he said, but sometimes that parking spills out into the cul-de-sac.

    Last month, someone filed a complaint about the number of cars. A county code enforcement officer visited the house and asked Jones' wife about the weekly Bible studies."She said, 'Do you say amen?' and my wife said, 'Well, yes,'" Jones recalled."And she said, 'Do you say praise the Lord?’ she said, 'Well, yes but what does that have to with it?'" Jones said.

    10News asked the county official about the officer's line of questioning."Did the officer actually do that? Is that part of the requirements to ask those questions?" Reporter Joe Little asked."Obviously, I wasn't there, so I can't tell you exactly what was said. However, what our officer was trying to do is establish what the use is so that we know what regulations to actually utilize," explained Chandra Wallar of the county's land use and environment group.Wallar said it's the officer’s job to determine what kind of event is hosted at Jones’ house to decide what part of county code the event falls under."The Bible studies are one that's probably in a very gray area," Waller said.That gray area may be causing the problem.

    Wallar said the county only cares about how any event impacts the surrounding neighborhood."We want to make sure -- whether they're on a public road or a private road -- that they're parking safely; that we can get fire trucks in; that we can get police vehicles in," Waller said. Jones' attorneys told 10News it sounds like the county is backing away from their original warning.

    In April, Jones received a written warning for "unlawful use of land" and was ordered to stop hosting his "religious assemblies."

    "They can stop religious activities in the courthouses and that but they're trying to stop prayer in my house," Jones complained.

    "We honestly don't care what people do inside their homes. That's their business. That's their private right," Wallar said.
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