Man ticked for open carry

**213th** · 08-11-09, 09:04 PM

A political statement ends in a ticket for a Madison man.
Twenty-eight year old Travis Yates is ticketed for packing heat Saturday night near the state capitol building. Police spokesman Joel DeSpain.
"Mr. Yates evidently wanted to make a political statement. He believes that people should be able to walk around -- law-abiding citizens -- and openly carry a firearm. So he was walking around the square near State Street and a number of citizens were troubled and disturbed by what they saw and so we stopped him and let him know that he would be cited for disorderly conduct."
Open Carry is legal in Wisconsin, with certain exceptions such as near schools and in bars. Yates had been carrying a 9 millimeter gun, which was holstered on his hip. DeSpain says Yates cooperated with police.
"Yes, he was very cooperative ... we told him that he should probably take this through the court system."
DeSpain says people were disturbed when they saw someone walking around with a gun, and that's why Yates was cited for disorderly conduct. Police gave him a ride home so he could put the gun away.
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A. No, it wasn't me

B. Wth? The AG has said that open carry is not a crime in and of itself. Which is what it sounds like here. So how the hell can they get away with citing for disorderly conduct for doing something completely legal?

C. I hope he sues and I'm forwarding this to the NRA so they can help him. Unless there was something more to this, I don't see how these officers could have a clean conscience about this. This state is way to f'in liberal for me.

**JSO85360** · 08-11-09, 09:23 PM

If he wasn't within the legal distance of a school or bar, and there are no laws pertaining to government buildings (most places have laws on the books even for concealed carry in places like schools, bars, police stations, detention facilities, courts, etc...) then he shouldn't have been hassled. What exactly was the point he was trying to make? It was either legal open carry or it wasn't. Should have been pretty clear. Where does the disorderly conduct come into play?

**MacLean** · 08-12-09, 12:17 AM

There is no disorderly conduct. This was an engineered case to test the AG's opinion.

**pgg** · 08-12-09, 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by maclean

There is no disorderly conduct. This was an engineered case to test the AG's opinion.

Thats the way I read it

**MacLean** · 08-12-09, 12:31 AM

It's been done here. Open Carry is catching on, tactical blunder or not.

**121Traffic** · 08-12-09, 01:40 AM

The disorderly conduct charge, if its like ours, probably stems from displaying a deadly weapon ib a manner that doesn't rise t brandishing or menacing but that would cause a reasonable person to be alarmed. Its up to the courts obviously what constitutes reasonable.

**TXCharlie** · 08-12-09, 01:56 AM

Hopefully the courts will say that it being in a holster is not a cause for anyone to be reasonably alarmed. If it comes out of the holster, then duhhh...

After all, it could be a plainclothes cop... Some of them do carry openly in plain clothes, although you'll generally find a badge pinned on them somewhere. I'm not aware of any requirement to have the badge visible except perhaps Department policy, but I've never really thought to research it.

**Morris** · 08-12-09, 01:57 AM

Speaking of which, anyone see the fellow in New Hampshire at the Obama event carrying his pistol in a thigh holster? He glomed all of the media attention as part of the opposition group. No laws violated and carrying on private property with permission.

Kind of fun to watch!

**JSO85360** · 08-12-09, 08:31 PM

I stopped at a quick mart for my wife to buy a pack of smokes, this guys walks out with a G22 in a BH holster, no badge and gets into his vehicle. Now I'm packin a 27 high capacity in a BH holster with my badge, but under a shirt. I was alarmed, but not enough to take action. We dont have open carry here, unless you're LEO on duty, and you should have your shield visible. I carry concealed for personal reasons. sometimes you just have to wonder. Personally I'd rather no one know that I'm armed.

**MacLean** · 08-12-09, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by JSO85360

I stopped at a quick mart for my wife to buy a pack of smokes, this guys walks out with a G22 in a BH holster, no badge and gets into his vehicle. Now I'm packin a 27 high capacity in a BH holster with my badge, but under a shirt. I was alarmed, but not enough to take action. We dont have open carry here, unless you're LEO on duty, and you should have your shield visible. I carry concealed for personal reasons. sometimes you just have to wonder. Personally I'd rather no one know that I'm armed.

Whatever we may think of the option personally, it is constitutionally protected activity.

**TXCharlie** · 08-12-09, 10:06 PM

I suppose he could clip one of these on his belt...

**213th** · 08-12-09, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by maclean

Whatever we may think of the option personally, it is constitutionally protected activity.

In some states anyways. I think its retarded and have not nor do I ever perceive me doing it. For now, I carry a small folding knife. Not what I'd prefer but it's legal. But llike you said, here it's constitutional, and if there was no extenuating circumstances leading to the ticket, I find it sad and upsetting that he was ticketed. Officers should uphold the rights. All of them. Unfortunatly, many police chiefs have stated they are directing their officers to proceed in the same manner as they previously did, towards those open carrying, when the AG said that it was not a crime to open carry.

**bayern** · 08-13-09, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by TXCharlie

I suppose he could clip one of these on his belt...

Good way to go to jail for impersonating. Open carry with one of these "badges" would lead people to believe you are a Law Enforcement Officer, which gould get you in a heap of trouble.m Same goes for those idiots that carry Bounty Hunter or Bailbondsmen badges. It the implication or appearance that counts. You could wind up losing your
gun - like permanently (forfeiture).

**MacLean** · 08-13-09, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by 213th

In some states anyways.

Constitutionally protected activity *can* refer to State constitutions, yes.

**Morris** · 08-13-09, 12:13 PM

Odd to think that 100 yars ago, in many parts of the country, the open carrying of firearms was allowed or encouraged while the furtive or concealed carry of firearms was deemed as devious and outlawed.

My, how the pendulum swings.

I'm fine with open carry. It's when you pick up or draw that pistol and point it at me is when I'm not so approving . . .

**MacLean** · 08-13-09, 07:16 PM

I'm "fine" with it legally speaking, but I disapprove of it tactically.

(You already know that, stating it for the others.)

**JSO85360** · 08-13-09, 07:33 PM

Public perception is everything these days. Two uniformed officers get out of a patrol car, and everybody is fine. Two task force officers get out of the same marked unit, and they look at the BDU's, the molle vests and gear, and they get all bent of shape wanting to know why the SWAT team is after them. Once we explain that we are out looking for the bad guys, and not just looking to write tickets, they relax a bit, but it's the intimidation factor. They see the different uniform and they emediately think the worst. I guess it's the same with open carry. They see the gun, they freak out. If the gun is concealed, then they dont see it, thus, no issue. I wish it was more like the old days. Everybody had a six shooter on their side, and unless the whisky started talking, everybody respected each other. It's a new world now.

**MacLean** · 08-14-09, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by JSO85360

Public perception is everything these days. Two uniformed officers get out of a patrol car, and everybody is fine. Two task force officers get out of the same marked unit, and they look at the BDU's, the molle vests and gear, and they get all bent of shape wanting to know why the SWAT team is after them. Once we explain that we are out looking for the bad guys, and not just looking to write tickets, they relax a bit, but it's the intimidation factor. They see the different uniform and they emediately think the worst. I guess it's the same with open carry. They see the gun, they freak out. If the gun is concealed, then they dont see it, thus, no issue. I wish it was more like the old days. Everybody had a six shooter on their side, and unless the whisky started talking, everybody respected each other. It's a new world now.

Arguably, someone being shocked does not change your right to be different, or to stand out.

What is most offensive is usually the most protected.

What you are saying is that only police being armed no longer shocks. To me, that is shocking.