Welcome to the APBWeb.
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 23
  1. #1
    jmur5074's Avatar
    jmur5074 is offline Moderator
    Premium Lifetime Member
    Verified LEO
    Site Moderator
    Join Date
    12-04-05
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    9,051
    Rep Power
    6232623

    Dallas Police Chief: Dozens of tickets written for not speaking english

    Dallas Police Chief David Kunkle said this afternoon that his officers have written at least 39 citations to people over the past three years for not speaking English.
    Apologizing publicly to the city's Spanish-speaking community, the chief said all officers and supervisors involved will be investigated for dereliction of duty. All pending citations will be dismissed, and people who paid fines will be reimbursed.

    "I was stunned that this would happen," Kunkle said at a news conference.
    The police chief added: "In my world, you would never tell someone not to speak Spanish."
    The bogus citations there is no law requiring Dallas residents to speak English came to light after it was revealed that a rookie officer, Gary Bromley, had issued a citation on Oct. 2 to Ernestina Mondragon for being a non-English-speaking driver.
    Bromley had stopped the 48-year-old woman for making an improper U-turn in the 500 block of Easton Road, near East Northwest Highway, according to the citation.
    Police officials at first dismissed Bromley's action as the foolish error of an inexperienced cop.
    "That's a charge that does not exist here in the city of Dallas," said Sgt. Warren Mitchell, a department spokesman.
    "Although we believe it was a sincere mistake ... there's no excuse for it."
    He said that charge and a charge of failure to present a driver's license were dropped.

    In all, about Dallas police write about 400,000 citations a year, department officials said.
    Bromley, 33, is a trainee officer in the Northeast Patrol division. His trainer on the date the ticket was issued was Senior Cpl. Daniel Larkin, 53, said Deputy Chief Tom Lawrence, Northeast Patrol commander.
    Under the Dallas City Code, taxi drivers must be able to communicate in English. Mitchell said there is also a federal statute that says commercial drivers must speak English, but it would not have applied in this case.
    Mondragon's daughter Brenda Mondragon said her mother was rushing to take her younger sister to school that day and did not see the "no U-turn" sign. Records show Ernestina Mondragon has a driver's license, but her daughter said she had forgotten it. She said her mother, a native Spanish speaker, speaks limited English.
    "She was very mad; she was very upset," Mondragon said of her mother's reaction. "We ended up taking her to the [emergency room] because she was nervous; she was just stressing over the ticket."



    Dallas police chief: Dozens of tickets issued for not speaking English | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Latest News
    No one has greater love than this, to lay down ones life for ones friends - John 15:13

    "The Wicked Flee When No Man Pursueth: But The Righteous Are Bold As A Lion".

    We lucky few, we band of brothers. For he who today sheds his blood with me shall be my brother.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~
    The opinions, beliefs, and ideas expressed in this post are mine, and mine alone. They are NOT the opinions, beliefs, ideas, or policies of my Agency, Police Chief, City Council, or any member of my department.

  2. #2
    pgg's Avatar
    pgg
    pgg is offline Damnit, I'm hungry again.
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    06-16-08
    Location
    Fled the Emerald Triangle
    Posts
    10,999
    Rep Power
    4046224
    There should be a section to cite for that
    'Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a
    delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly
    promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
    holds forth the proposition that it is entirely
    possible to pick up a turd by the clean end!'

    A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. Sigmund Freud

  3. #3
    CTR man's Avatar
    CTR man is offline Officer First Class
    Supporting Member Lvl 3
    Join Date
    05-20-06
    Location
    Ceres, CA
    Posts
    4,965
    Rep Power
    1169037
    Quote Originally Posted by pgg View Post
    There should be a section to cite for that
    I'll agree to that.


    Choose The Right. When you're doing whats right, then you have nothing to worry about.

    Not a LEO

    In memory of Sgt. Howard K. Stevenson 1965 - 2005. Ceres Police Dept.
    In memory of Robert N. Panos 1955 - 2008 Ceres Police Dept.









  4. #4
    TXCharlie's Avatar
    TXCharlie is offline Former & Future Reserve Officer
    Join Date
    12-29-05
    Location
    Dallas Area
    Posts
    5,528
    Rep Power
    3224965
    Fine, then cite for not following commands spoken in English (Failure to display DL, Failure to identify, Reststing Arrest Without Violence, Taking contraban into a jail, etc, when told otherwise)!

    (\__/)
    (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
    (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

  5. #5
    cajunguy's Avatar
    cajunguy is online now I LOVE my ParaOrd .45ACP!
    Verified LEO
    Join Date
    12-03-05
    Location
    South La.
    Posts
    1,938
    Rep Power
    2627362
    Quote Originally Posted by jmur5074 View Post
    "All pending citations will be dismissed, and people who paid fines will be reimbursed."
    How did they pay a fine for a violation that doesn't exist?

    Duhhhhhh.


    .
    The Swamp Mafia -
    "Heaven doesn't want us,
    and Hell's afraid we'll take over!!"
    .

  6. #6
    TXCharlie's Avatar
    TXCharlie is offline Former & Future Reserve Officer
    Join Date
    12-29-05
    Location
    Dallas Area
    Posts
    5,528
    Rep Power
    3224965
    Quote Originally Posted by cajunguy View Post
    How did they pay a fine for a violation that doesn't exist?

    Duhhhhhh.
    .
    But it DOES exist - For Taxi Drivers. Trouble is, most of them weren't Taxi Drivers, but I guess they'd have to prove that somehow.



    Yeah, I figure they really intended it as a joke, but not a very well thought-out joke.

    They should have known that no one would laugh about it.... Well, except some of us

    (\__/)
    (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
    (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

  7. #7
    Ducky's Avatar
    Ducky is offline Enforcer General
    Supporting Member Lvl 3
    Join Date
    12-05-05
    Location
    Handbasket, enroute to somewhere hot.
    Posts
    11,108
    Rep Power
    7439166
    I'd be willing to bet that if you went to Mexico and didn't speak Spanish, the cops would find a ton of things wrong with the situation, but nothing that couldn't be cleared up with a massive bribe.
    \\
    ` ` ` ` < ` )___/\
    `` ` ` ` (3--(____)
    "...but to forget your duck, of course, means you're really screwed." - Gary Larson
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtN1YnoL46Q


  8. #8
    gopherpuckfan's Avatar
    gopherpuckfan is offline I'm from the government and I'm here to help
    Verified LEO
    Join Date
    02-02-07
    Location
    Twin Cities, MN
    Posts
    2,747
    Rep Power
    1717608
    Quote Originally Posted by TXCharlie View Post
    But it DOES exist - For Taxi Drivers. Trouble is, most of them weren't Taxi Drivers, but I guess they'd have to prove that somehow.
    I love how whenever I have to go to court for one of our cab drivers at the airport, they always have an interpreter request. I should then cite them for violating our taxi ordinance that states the drivers must speak English

    Might start using that one anyways....

    The views expressed in the above post are the sole opinion of the author and do not reflect any official position by the author's employer and/or municipality.

  9. #9
    CTR man's Avatar
    CTR man is offline Officer First Class
    Supporting Member Lvl 3
    Join Date
    05-20-06
    Location
    Ceres, CA
    Posts
    4,965
    Rep Power
    1169037
    Quote Originally Posted by Ducky View Post
    I'd be willing to bet that if you went to Mexico and didn't speak Spanish, the cops would find a ton of things wrong with the situation, but nothing that couldn't be cleared up with a massive bribe.
    And that, my friends, goes to show how corrupt the Mexican Police system is, if such a thing is true.


    Choose The Right. When you're doing whats right, then you have nothing to worry about.

    Not a LEO

    In memory of Sgt. Howard K. Stevenson 1965 - 2005. Ceres Police Dept.
    In memory of Robert N. Panos 1955 - 2008 Ceres Police Dept.









  10. #10
    TXCharlie's Avatar
    TXCharlie is offline Former & Future Reserve Officer
    Join Date
    12-29-05
    Location
    Dallas Area
    Posts
    5,528
    Rep Power
    3224965
    Predictable outcome: A woman who was ticketed is filing a lawsuit.

    She claimed that the ticket caused her so much emotional distress that she had to go to the hospital - She claims that cost $5,000.

    She hired Royce West, a local Civil Rights lawyer who is also an influential Texas State Representative. His suits are usually at least in the 6-figure range, but this one could be in the $millions because he's talking about a class action suit.

    Chief Kunckle is profusely apologizing, so the cops who wrote the prank tickets will probably get thrown under the bus and fired, would be my guess, unless she's a taxi driver - Very expensive jokes all the way around.

    (\__/)
    (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
    (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

  11. #11
    tapout's Avatar
    tapout is offline keepin it gangsta'
    Verified LEO
    Join Date
    02-08-06
    Location
    east coast
    Posts
    1,554
    Rep Power
    1618736
    Quote Originally Posted by TXCharlie View Post

    Chief Kunckle is profusely apologizing, so the cops who wrote the prank tickets will probably get thrown under the bus and fired, would be my guess, unless she's a taxi driver - Very expensive jokes all the way around.
    honestly, who the hell writes a prank ticket? those things are official court documents. really its just stupid.
    in the warriors code there's no surrender, though his body says stop, his spirit cries...NEVER. deep in our souls, a quiet ember, knows its you against you, its the paradox that drives us all. its a battle of wills, in the heat of attack, its the passion that kills, and victory is yours alone.


    the posts and opinions stated by me do not in any way reflect the values, beliefs, or views of my department. they are simply opinions and/or observations which have been developed through my personal experiences. hell, most of the stories probably arent even true...wink wink

  12. #12
    TXCharlie's Avatar
    TXCharlie is offline Former & Future Reserve Officer
    Join Date
    12-29-05
    Location
    Dallas Area
    Posts
    5,528
    Rep Power
    3224965
    Quote Originally Posted by tapout View Post
    honestly, who the hell writes a prank ticket? those things are official court documents. really its just stupid.
    No question about that!

    Keep in mind, though, most or all of these people committed other traffic violations - This woman made an illegal U-Turn. They weren't just pulled over to write the language tickets.

    I happen to agree with those cops that people living here for decades without bothering to learn the language deserves some biting sarcasm, and there's actually something to be said for the arguement that people who can't understand English pose dangers to the community in certain situations - Even something as simple as reading a warning sign that's not in five different languages. But there's better ways to do it without endangering their jobs.

    Even ignoring the fact that they're official documents, everyone knows that a joke, prank, sarcasm, stupidity or whatever, which could be easily be turned into a racial controversy isn't going to turn out good, even if it was just a slap at them not being able to communicate versus any racial intent.

    What really gets me is that it was more than one cop involved, apparently. Be assured, every single slipup they ever had, no matter how minor or innocent, will now be in the news headlines for weeks, if Royce West has anything to do with it.

    (\__/)
    (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
    (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

  13. #13
    Jks9199 is offline The Reason People Hate Cops & Causer of War
    Verified LEO
    Join Date
    04-16-06
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    4,126
    Rep Power
    6583115
    The tickets were a dumb move. Any real law like that is carefully limited... And the cops dumb enough to pull a game like that deserve what they get. They make everyone look dumb.

    With that issue covered -- I've got a major problem when someone's been in the country for years, working and driving, and can't handle basic English. We don't put lots of important signs -- like road closure warnings -- in multiple languages, and there are limits to the "universal" symbols. I'm honestly waiting for a nice, documentable case where someone's failure to learn English leads to a death, either by driving off an incomplete flyover or because they didn't understand what the cop was saying...
    Voting against incumbents until we get a Congress that does its job.

    TASER: almost as good as alcohol for teaching white boys to dance

    "Don't suffer from PTSD -- Go out and cause it!"
    -- Col. David Grossman, US Army, ret.

    All opinions expressed are my own and are not official statements of my employer.

  14. #14
    TXCharlie's Avatar
    TXCharlie is offline Former & Future Reserve Officer
    Join Date
    12-29-05
    Location
    Dallas Area
    Posts
    5,528
    Rep Power
    3224965
    Quote Originally Posted by Jks9199 View Post
    With that issue covered -- I've got a major problem when someone's been in the country for years, working and driving, and can't handle basic English. We don't put lots of important signs -- like road closure warnings -- in multiple languages, and there are limits to the "universal" symbols. I'm honestly waiting for a nice, documentable case where someone's failure to learn English leads to a death, either by driving off an incomplete flyover or because they didn't understand what the cop was saying...
    And this woman probably fell in that category, because her high-school daughters were with her - She was taking them to school. They spoke perfect English on TV, with hardly an accent.

    Oh yeah... the other charge besides the illegal U-was not having her Driver's Licence with her... i can her her now telling the officer (in Spanish) that she didn't know she had to have it with her because she couldn't read the instruction booklet (even though it IS in several different languages), and the officer not knowing what the Hell she's trying to tell him

    Another possibility that I've encountered myself: Her claiming not to know English, hoping the cop won't write her a ticket if he can't explain to her what violation the citation is for. In some places, the unwritten policy is if they won't sign the ticket because they don't understand the charge, then on go the cuffs, off to see the judge. That's DEFINITELY allowed.

    It's really kinda hard to believe she didn't know English, with her daughter speaking perfect English.

    Yet a third possibility: The "Does not speak English" is merely a notation on the ticket. Notations like that are allowed on the ticket, because they may have a bearing on the Judge. These officers may have just been careless where they put the notation - I'd like to see the ticket for myself.

    (\__/)
    (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
    (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

  15. #15
    CTR man's Avatar
    CTR man is offline Officer First Class
    Supporting Member Lvl 3
    Join Date
    05-20-06
    Location
    Ceres, CA
    Posts
    4,965
    Rep Power
    1169037
    Quote Originally Posted by TXCharlie View Post
    And this woman probably fell in that category, because her high-school daughters were with her - She was taking them to school. They spoke perfect English on TV, with hardly an accent.
    There should be a citeable offense for playing dumb or stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by TXCharlie View Post
    Oh yeah... the other charge besides the illegal U-was not having her Driver's License with her... i can her her now telling the officer (in Spanish) that she didn't know she had to have it with her because she couldn't read the instruction booklet (even though it IS in several different languages), and the officer not knowing what the Hell she's trying to tell him
    That's probably because that many of them can't even read their own language of Spanish much less English.

    Another is the "it's my culture" crap that many of them pull. Then they expect us to cater to them.

    If they are going to bother to live in the United States, especially for several years, they need to learn the English language. My forefathers did it, they can too.


    Choose The Right. When you're doing whats right, then you have nothing to worry about.

    Not a LEO

    In memory of Sgt. Howard K. Stevenson 1965 - 2005. Ceres Police Dept.
    In memory of Robert N. Panos 1955 - 2008 Ceres Police Dept.









  16. #16
    Jks9199 is offline The Reason People Hate Cops & Causer of War
    Verified LEO
    Join Date
    04-16-06
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    4,126
    Rep Power
    6583115
    Quote Originally Posted by TXCharlie View Post
    And this woman probably fell in that category, because her high-school daughters were with her - She was taking them to school. They spoke perfect English on TV, with hardly an accent.

    Oh yeah... the other charge besides the illegal U-was not having her Driver's Licence with her... i can her her now telling the officer (in Spanish) that she didn't know she had to have it with her because she couldn't read the instruction booklet (even though it IS in several different languages), and the officer not knowing what the Hell she's trying to tell him

    Another possibility that I've encountered myself: Her claiming not to know English, hoping the cop won't write her a ticket if he can't explain to her what violation the citation is for. In some places, the unwritten policy is if they won't sign the ticket because they don't understand the charge, then on go the cuffs, off to see the judge. That's DEFINITELY allowed.

    It's really kinda hard to believe she didn't know English, with her daughter speaking perfect English.

    Yet a third possibility: The "Does not speak English" is merely a notation on the ticket. Notations like that are allowed on the ticket, because they may have a bearing on the Judge. These officers may have just been careless where they put the notation - I'd like to see the ticket for myself.
    In VA, it's easy. You don't sign the summons, you go to the magistrate. In cuffs.

    I think I've posted the story of the chick who was certain that I gave her a ticket because she didn't speak English well... as I was speaking Spanish to her! (And cut her a couple of breaks, too...)

    I also have fun with the guys who'll try to play the "no habla" game with me... as I'm speaking to them in Spanish... The "Oh shit, what now?" look is often priceless.
    Voting against incumbents until we get a Congress that does its job.

    TASER: almost as good as alcohol for teaching white boys to dance

    "Don't suffer from PTSD -- Go out and cause it!"
    -- Col. David Grossman, US Army, ret.

    All opinions expressed are my own and are not official statements of my employer.

  17. #17
    TXCharlie's Avatar
    TXCharlie is offline Former & Future Reserve Officer
    Join Date
    12-29-05
    Location
    Dallas Area
    Posts
    5,528
    Rep Power
    3224965
    Quote Originally Posted by Jks9199 View Post
    I also have fun with the guys who'll try to play the "no habla" game with me... as I'm speaking to them in Spanish... The "Oh shit, what now?" look is often priceless.
    I need to learn Spanish so I can do that

    (\__/)
    (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
    (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

  18. #18
    pgg's Avatar
    pgg
    pgg is offline Damnit, I'm hungry again.
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    06-16-08
    Location
    Fled the Emerald Triangle
    Posts
    10,999
    Rep Power
    4046224
    Quote Originally Posted by Jks9199 View Post
    In VA, it's easy. You don't sign the summons, you go to the magistrate. In cuffs.

    I think I've posted the story of the chick who was certain that I gave her a ticket because she didn't speak English well... as I was speaking Spanish to her! (And cut her a couple of breaks, too...)

    I also have fun with the guys who'll try to play the "no habla" game with me... as I'm speaking to them in Spanish... The "Oh shit, what now?" look is often priceless.
    Same here, no signo, go to jailo. several years ago a partner of mine ran into some "immigrants" that had practiced doing some FSTs in english. So he then asked them to do it in spanish. Their faces were priceless
    'Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a
    delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly
    promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
    holds forth the proposition that it is entirely
    possible to pick up a turd by the clean end!'

    A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. Sigmund Freud

  19. #19
    CTR man's Avatar
    CTR man is offline Officer First Class
    Supporting Member Lvl 3
    Join Date
    05-20-06
    Location
    Ceres, CA
    Posts
    4,965
    Rep Power
    1169037
    Quote Originally Posted by Jks9199 View Post
    I also have fun with the guys who'll try to play the "no habla" game with me... as I'm speaking to them in Spanish... The "Oh shit, what now?" look is often priceless.
    Quote Originally Posted by pgg View Post
    Same here, no signo, go to jailo. several years ago a partner of mine ran into some "immigrants" that had practiced doing some FSTs in english. So he then asked them to do it in spanish. Their faces were priceless
    Dang, you guys have all the fun.


    Choose The Right. When you're doing whats right, then you have nothing to worry about.

    Not a LEO

    In memory of Sgt. Howard K. Stevenson 1965 - 2005. Ceres Police Dept.
    In memory of Robert N. Panos 1955 - 2008 Ceres Police Dept.









  20. #20
    Jks9199 is offline The Reason People Hate Cops & Causer of War
    Verified LEO
    Join Date
    04-16-06
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    4,126
    Rep Power
    6583115
    Quote Originally Posted by TXCharlie View Post
    I need to learn Spanish so I can do that
    Well... I learned years ago that I have a special gift for teaching English. I just say "This is a ticket" or "You're under arrest" and the guy who didn't speak a word of English is cussing me out fluently!

    We can try it in Spanish for you and see if the magic works in reverse, if you want... But I do think that the handcuffs/ticket are an essential element of the spell...
    Voting against incumbents until we get a Congress that does its job.

    TASER: almost as good as alcohol for teaching white boys to dance

    "Don't suffer from PTSD -- Go out and cause it!"
    -- Col. David Grossman, US Army, ret.

    All opinions expressed are my own and are not official statements of my employer.

 

 
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •