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  1. #1
    FishTail Guest

    10 year old in court over race hate crime

    A JUDGE yesterday blasted a decision to haul a boy of 10 before a court for allegedly calling a friend "Paki".

    District Judge Jonathan Finestein said: "Have we really got to the stage where we are prosecuting 10-year-old boys because of political correctness?

    "I was repeatedly called fat at school. Does this amount to a criminal offence? This is political correctness gone mad, it's crazy." And he called on the police and Crown Prosecution Service to drop the case. Mr Finestein told the court: "In the old days the headmaster would have got them both and given them a good clouting.

    "He would have said they had behaved like idiots, given them the slipper or whatever he used, and they would have gone away to shake hands."
    The boy, who cannot be named, is accused of shouting "bin Laden" at the 11-year-old in the school playground.

    He also allegedly chanted "He's on the run, pull the trigger and shoot the n****r, five, four, three, two, one".


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    The lad has admitted shouting "Paki" but said the other boy called him "white trash".


    He denies the racially aggravated public order offence.


    Salford youth court heard that the pair, from Irlam, Greater Manchester, now play football together and go to each other's houses.


    The defendant's mother said: "He's friends with the lad now. It seems silly to me."


    Mr Finestein said: "I should not think he understands bin Laden or al-Qaeda.


    "I'm not condoning what he supposedly said but there must be other ways of dealing with this apart from criminal prosecution." He said it was wrong for children to have racist views but he was "anxious to avoid the criminal conviction of somebody so young".


    Mr Finestein went on: "This is how stupid the whole system is getting.

    "There are major crimes out there and the police don't bother to prosecute.


    "If you get your car stolen it doesn't matter, but you get two kids falling out because of racist comments, this is nonsense."


    The case was adjourned. The boy had refused a final warning from police and was then summoned to court.


    Police said afterwards: "We take all reports of crime seriously and remain totally opposed to racism in any form."


    Judith Elderkin, of the National Union of Teachers, said the judge was "a bit out of date". She said schools had to report racist incidents to the local education authority. "Racist abuse is not tolerated nowadays."


    The CPS would not comment.

    ------------------------

    Sorry, but this is bull! Putting a ten year old in court for a spat in the playground just because it's racist? Please! It's rubbish like this that calls the whole system into disrepute.

    Last time I looked, "not a police matter" was the appropriate response.


  2. #2
    Cris1102 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Longtail
    Sorry, but this is bull! Putting a ten year old in court for a spat in the playground just because it's racist? Please! It's rubbish like this that calls the whole system into disrepute.

    Last time I looked, "not a police matter" was the appropriate response.
    Completely agree with you LT and with Finestein. I don't condone what happened but to take it to court is rediculous.

  3. #3
    Prometheus's Avatar
    Prometheus is offline Senior Member
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    Judith Elderkin, of the National Union of Teachers, said the judge was "a bit out of date". She said schools had to report racist incidents to the local education authority. "Racist abuse is not tolerated nowadays."
    This is just dumb. A burning cross is a racist incident. Anti-Semetic grafitti is a racist incident. Beating a "Towelhead" is a racist incident. A ten-year old calling a classmate a "Paki" is NOT an "incident". Glad my tax money was wasted on different things than this.
    "Look, just give me some inner peace or I'll mop the floor with you!"

  4. #4
    deputy29 is offline Master Officer
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    If a child that age is calling another child names like that he had to have learned it from his parents. They should be the ones that are held accountable and if not them then the person he learned it from.

  5. #5
    Falcata is offline UK police officer
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    There are so many conflicting views..and i've read/listened to a few over the last couple of days..

    You've got newspapers saying the police are more interested in homophobic/racist crimes and not paying enough attention to theft, burglary, anti-social behaviour etc....

    Then you've got people critisising the judge in this 10 year old racist case, who complained that the case should never have gone to court. People saying the Judge is 'out of touch' and 'should be reprimanded' etc..

  6. #6
    Standard Dave's Avatar
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    Just read about this in a newspaper that says the Kid taken to court admitted the racist language but refused a reprimand (caution) on legal advice me thinks stupid parents or dodgy defence solicitors.

  7. #7
    Retdetsgt's Avatar
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    You must have some pretty severe hate crime laws there.

    I worked hate crimes my last three years and both our misdemeanor and felony hate crime laws are "add ons" to other crimes. You have to commit a separate crime against someone because of their race, religion, etc. They don't stand alone. And calling someone a name, even by an adult isn't a crime. And we have the burden of proof to show that is was because of their race, etc.
    When I used to be somebody (I'm center top)

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  8. #8
    Standard Dave's Avatar
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    The offence is a minor public order offence which can be a commited by using an offensive word in a public place in this case it was racist as well the usual out come is a fixed penalty ticket for £80 or a fine at court of around the same plus costs the media have got hold of it though and blown it up into some sort of major issue abut the state of the nation. The crime becomes racially aggrevated which can up the fine and give custodial time to some offences.

  9. #9
    Garda's Avatar
    Garda is offline Policing with nothing but a smile
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    Dave,
    whats the minimum age of criminal responsibilty in the UK? And if its a chool yard does it fall under the definition of a public place within the POA?

    Should also add, I dont agree with charging him.
    Quote Originally Posted by TXCharlie
    Hey thanks Garda - I did think of you last night as I was lying in bed

  10. #10
    Standard Dave's Avatar
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    it's 10 years old.

    public place is a place open to the public or a section of the public at the material time wether by payment or otherwise. Or something similar in wording it's upto the court to decide if its raised as a defence looking at the case law. I guess in this case that the children and staff are a section of the public with unlimited acess to the area so it would be a public place.

    I'm not sure taking a 10 year old to court for an arguement is totally correct but understand due to the system at present the cops and junior lawyers from the Crown prosecution service would find it easier to do that than say no this is a waste of everyones time if someone wants it stopped the seniors can do it I won't stick my neck out as I will be called a racist or disciplined for neglect of duty as a crimes been reported it needs to be detected.

  11. #11
    FishTail Guest
    The Public Order Act in England and Wales applies to anywhere that is not a dwelling. So, you can commit it by abusing someone from a dwelling if they're not in a dwelling, or in a shop or office. Anywhere except where the abuser and abused aren't both in a dwelling.

 

 

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