Welcome to the APBWeb.

View Poll Results: Even if the information is "open source" should the media publish this information?

Voters
16. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, it's a First Amendment issue, regardless of damage to national security

    0 0%
  • Yes, it may not be a good thing but the information is out there anyway

    3 18.75%
  • No, the media should respect national security

    12 75.00%
  • Other, please explain

    1 6.25%
Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1
    Xiphos's Avatar
    Xiphos is online now I Void Warranties
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    03-09-08
    Location
    Thermopylae
    Posts
    8,378
    Rep Power
    7772239

    Wash Post Article Highlights Classified Facilities

    "The Washington Post plans to publish a website listing all agencies and contractors believed to conduct Top Secret work on behalf of the U.S. Government," the notice reads. "The website provides a graphic representation pinpointing the location of firms conducting Top Secret work, describing the type of work they perform, and identifying many facilities where such work is done."

    According to the notice, the Post used only open-source information to compile its site. However, if some of that open-source information turns out to have been classified, its publication by the Post doesn't change that classification, the State Department emphasized.
    See the whole article: State Department warns employees about new website highlighting Top Secret facilities | The Cable

    I have obtained this document sent by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. It appears the Washington Post is about to push the bounds of intelligence reporting. The intelligence agency seems concerned. See letter below. More coming later.
    See the whole article: TWT Exclusive: Is Wash Post harming intelligence work? - Washington Times
    Pleasing nobody, one person at a time.

    That which does not kill me, better start fucking running.

    If I lived every day like it was my last, the body count would be staggering.

    I intend to go in harm's way. -John Paul Jones

    Hunt the wolf, and bring light to the dark places that others fear to go. LT COL Dave Grossman

  2. #2
    213th's Avatar
    213th is offline Solipsist
    Join Date
    12-19-05
    Location
    64.3 N 149.1 W
    Posts
    3,672
    Rep Power
    1712095
    Top Secret (TS)
    The highest level of classification of material on a national level. Such material would cause "exceptionally grave damage" to national security if made publicly available.
    Secret

    Such material would cause "grave damage" to national security if it were publicly available.


    I postulate that if the material is capable of causing grave/exceptionally grave damage to nat sec when compromised, then damage to facilities and personnel who create such materials would also cause the same damage. IMO, Washington Post is way out of line, bordering on treason.
    He who has the money, signs the cheques.
    He who signs the cheques, makes the rules.
    He who makes the rules, has the power.
    He who has the power, has the money.

  3. #3
    2 Blue 4 U's Avatar
    2 Blue 4 U is offline Retired NYPD
    Verified LEO
    Join Date
    06-07-08
    Location
    Bronx,NY
    Posts
    2,280
    Rep Power
    483428
    WTF, this is stepping over the line

    http://www.officerresource.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic5657_1.gif
    Liberty & Justice For All!

  4. #4
    Five-0's Avatar
    Five-0 is offline Super Moderator
    Premium Lifetime Member
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    05-15-06
    Posts
    10,982
    Rep Power
    8357018
    The information should not be out there for the WashPost to publish. If it is then those we want to keep the information from already know about it anyway. The fact that the Post has found it says more about our national security than the Post publishing it. If this causes security to be improved then it is worth the publication. If I were running the paper I would tell those that need to know to fix it. If that didn't work I would publish it too.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

  5. #5
    Captain America's Avatar
    Captain America is offline Reed and Malloy were my FTOs
    Supporting Member Lvl 1
    Verified LEO
    Site Moderator
    Join Date
    05-01-08
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    8,627
    Rep Power
    6608676
    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    The information should not be out there for the WashPost to publish. If it is then those we want to keep the information from already know about it anyway. The fact that the Post has found it says more about our national security than the Post publishing it. If this causes security to be improved then it is worth the publication. If I were running the paper I would tell those that need to know to fix it. If that didn't work I would publish it too.
    I agree with Five-O , if the WashPost found the information then the intelligence agencies of most other countries already have the info. No way they should have been able to access the intelligence in the first place considering they don't have a tenth of the resources that the intelligence appartus of most nations have.
    SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM

    "It's a great life. You risk your skin catching killers and the juries turn them loose so they can come back and shoot at you again. If your honest , your poor your whole life. And , In the end , you wind up dying all alone on some dirty street. For what? For nothing. For a tin star."
    -Ex-Sheriff Martin Howe to Will Kane in "High Noon"

    Far from being a handicap to command, compassion is the measure of it. For unless one values the lives of his soldiers and is tormented by their ordeals , he is unfit to command.
    -General Omar Bradley, United States Army

    Renniger-Richards-Griswold-Owens

  6. #6
    Odd's Avatar
    Odd
    Odd is offline Cosmonaut Trainer
    Supporting Member Lvl 3
    Join Date
    10-08-08
    Posts
    2,056
    Rep Power
    2508662
    Hmm. If I ran some company with a contract and found a big red arrow pointing at my office on some Google Map the Post made up I'd be less than pleased. As a taxpayer the article sounds like it has merit. From a security standpoint the layer they're losing is obscurity, which is usually a lot less useful than perceived.

    Thieves steal 3,000 laptops from US Special Ops contractor Those thieves didn't need a map. Luckily those didn't have any military info on them. How many stories have we read over the past few years about contractors (and the government) losing laptops full of info? Doesn't much matter if we know where they work if they're leaving their work at the Starbucks.

    Seems Congress failing to pass an intelligence authorization bill prevents intelligence agencies from creating permanent jobs so more and more things must be outsourced. Maybe shining a light on this will get congressional butts motivated. The article is being written by the same reporter who literally shined the light on the cockroaches at Walter Reed, another case where officials cringed and would have preferred it not be printed, but was the outcome worth the pain in that case?

    Not saying this one is a good thing, but I'm no more sure it's a bad thing.

  7. #7
    TXCharlie's Avatar
    TXCharlie is offline Former & Future Reserve Officer
    Join Date
    12-29-05
    Location
    Dallas Area
    Posts
    5,528
    Rep Power
    3224964
    Back when I worked for a defense contractor, they warned that two bits of unclassified information can become classified if you put them together in the right way, especially if they're related.

    Our company went into lockdown back in the 1980's when an unexploded HARM missile that was shot in Libya was shown on Libyan TV to have our company's nameplate complete with address on the chassis. Now, it was no secret that we made the HARM, and it was no secret that HARM's were shot in Lybia to knock out their radar installations - But that nameplate put the information together during hostilities, in such a way that there was a clear danger that one of the millions of people that we made very angry would seek immediate revenge.

    The threat was taken so seriously that our supervisor quietly suggested very strongly that we bring our pistols with us to work, and not walk to and from our cars alone. I don't think the gun part was a company thing, but guards were definitely escorting people to their cars and keeping the parking lot locked down pretty good.

    I would say that a lot fewer people were mad at us then than there are now.

    (\__/)
    (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
    (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

  8. #8
    Jks9199 is offline The Reason People Hate Cops & Causer of War
    Verified LEO
    Join Date
    04-16-06
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    4,122
    Rep Power
    6563842
    I'd have to know more. I used to work in that world, and have either current or have held clearances from DOD, DOJ and the intelligence community. Lots of the stuff that might go onto that list isn't a real problem. For example, we know that the shipyards in Norfolk build Navy vessels. The specifics of the manufacturing and design may be classified... and leaking some of that would be a serious concern. The mere fact that they build them there? No big deal. Hell, the NSA and NRO both have their HQ buildings on the map. You can't go inside... or even get all that close, but you can drive by them. Same thing with Langley for the CIA.

    There is work and there are activities that even the mere knowledge of their location or who is doing them is a serious national security concern. That's why there are black lines on the budgets, and classified contracts. Or bizarre contracts 'cause some dumbass decided the way to hide the black budget item was behind a contract listing $40 million dollar thimbles or something like that... (No, I don't think that's a real one I just made up.)

    So, until I see what they've got and how it's presented... I'm not up in arms. I ain't thrilled... I was briefed in on the periphery of a classified program that accidentally got blown wide open; talk about a zoo and chaos afterwards!
    Voting against incumbents until we get a Congress that does its job.

    TASER: almost as good as alcohol for teaching white boys to dance

    "Don't suffer from PTSD -- Go out and cause it!"
    -- Col. David Grossman, US Army, ret.

    All opinions expressed are my own and are not official statements of my employer.

  9. #9
    Xiphos's Avatar
    Xiphos is online now I Void Warranties
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    03-09-08
    Location
    Thermopylae
    Posts
    8,378
    Rep Power
    7772239
    Quote Originally Posted by Jks9199 View Post
    I'd have to know more. I used to work in that world, and have either current or have held clearances from DOD, DOJ and the intelligence community. Lots of the stuff that might go onto that list isn't a real problem. For example, we know that the shipyards in Norfolk build Navy vessels. The specifics of the manufacturing and design may be classified... and leaking some of that would be a serious concern. The mere fact that they build them there? No big deal. Hell, the NSA and NRO both have their HQ buildings on the map. You can't go inside... or even get all that close, but you can drive by them. Same thing with Langley for the CIA.
    Those facilities are hardened against attack and espionage. The concern I have is for some business, in a commercial area near other businesses or even homes, that doesn't have the resources to deal with high security or counter espionage.
    Pleasing nobody, one person at a time.

    That which does not kill me, better start fucking running.

    If I lived every day like it was my last, the body count would be staggering.

    I intend to go in harm's way. -John Paul Jones

    Hunt the wolf, and bring light to the dark places that others fear to go. LT COL Dave Grossman

  10. #10
    TXCharlie's Avatar
    TXCharlie is offline Former & Future Reserve Officer
    Join Date
    12-29-05
    Location
    Dallas Area
    Posts
    5,528
    Rep Power
    3224964
    Quote Originally Posted by Xiphos View Post
    Those facilities are hardened against attack and espionage. The concern I have is for some business, in a commercial area near other businesses or even homes, that doesn't have the resources to deal with high security or counter espionage.
    +1

    Not all defense contractors even have fenced-in facilities, especially the little sub-contractors whose main line of business might be commercial products like car parts or something.

    (\__/)
    (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
    (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

  11. #11
    Bob Loblaw's Avatar
    Bob Loblaw is offline Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho
    Verified LEO
    Join Date
    05-16-06
    Location
    America, 2505 A.D.
    Posts
    2,840
    Rep Power
    3732206
    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    The information should not be out there for the WashPost to publish. If it is then those we want to keep the information from already know about it anyway. The fact that the Post has found it says more about our national security than the Post publishing it. If this causes security to be improved then it is worth the publication. If I were running the paper I would tell those that need to know to fix it. If that didn't work I would publish it too.
    1+. Like it or not (and I don't like it), this is one of the primary functions served by the Fourth Estate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna
    he (Obama) doesn't have a birth certificate because he wasn't born, he was created in a Muslim witch's cauldron!
    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    I must admit, there have been few pieces of meat I've ever jammed into my mouth that have been as satisfying as Bob's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gecko45 "The Mall Ninja"
    Vietnam still shudders when it hears the name of a an assasin so skillful and deadly, he is remembered decades later
    Reca is the best thing since sliced bread!

  12. #12
    Jks9199 is offline The Reason People Hate Cops & Causer of War
    Verified LEO
    Join Date
    04-16-06
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    4,122
    Rep Power
    6563842
    For the facilities that actually deal with classified material -- there are strict requirements for how they're built and protected. Believe me, in the Northern Virginia/DC area, there are more places that store and keep classified material or do classified work than you can shake a stick at... And, no, I'm not leaking anything when I say that! It's just common sense & kind of obvious.
    Voting against incumbents until we get a Congress that does its job.

    TASER: almost as good as alcohol for teaching white boys to dance

    "Don't suffer from PTSD -- Go out and cause it!"
    -- Col. David Grossman, US Army, ret.

    All opinions expressed are my own and are not official statements of my employer.

  13. #13
    Xiphos's Avatar
    Xiphos is online now I Void Warranties
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    03-09-08
    Location
    Thermopylae
    Posts
    8,378
    Rep Power
    7772239
    Pleasing nobody, one person at a time.

    That which does not kill me, better start fucking running.

    If I lived every day like it was my last, the body count would be staggering.

    I intend to go in harm's way. -John Paul Jones

    Hunt the wolf, and bring light to the dark places that others fear to go. LT COL Dave Grossman

  14. #14
    Jks9199 is offline The Reason People Hate Cops & Causer of War
    Verified LEO
    Join Date
    04-16-06
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    4,122
    Rep Power
    6563842
    I've been reading it. It doesn't really tell you much that you don't already know if you've been anywhere close to that sort of stuff... And blows some of the places a bit out of proportion.

    But it makes some really good points, too... 20 years ago, the intel world was big and had a lot of redundancy. Today... it's even worse. According to the articles... the people who were supposed to be watching for radicalization within the troops decided on their own to watch outside instead... 'cause at least 4 other units/entities watching for outside threats weren't enough...
    Voting against incumbents until we get a Congress that does its job.

    TASER: almost as good as alcohol for teaching white boys to dance

    "Don't suffer from PTSD -- Go out and cause it!"
    -- Col. David Grossman, US Army, ret.

    All opinions expressed are my own and are not official statements of my employer.

 

 

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •