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  1. #1
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    Aldgate firefighters were 'hostile', 7/7 inquests hear

    Firefighters at the Aldgate terrorist bombing were "hostile" and "quite upset", the 7/7 inquests have heard.
    Paramedic Anthony Cumner was in the first ambulance to arrive at the Tube station after the 7 July 2005 attack.
    He told the hearings that firefighters "did not understand the role" of the initial ambulance which was to report the situation back to the control room.
    BBC News - Aldgate firefighters were 'hostile', 7/7 inquests hear

    These guys it appears need to have some more major incident training, I've always found the fire service poor at understanding the roles of other services and keen to just do there role and leave.
    "all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" Edmund Burke.
    "the world is a dangerous place place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who do not do anything about it" Albert Einstein

  2. #2
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    Lets face it we rarely work together at any major incident and the police desire to preserve the scene is always in conflict with the other services.

    I've always found the fire service a little unwilling to be told that if it's not a fire we're actually in charge. I have however been around so long now that I know most of the senior fire officers and have a pretty good working relationship.
    More time understanding each others roles would be an advantage but nobody has the time or spare resources now to do such things.
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  3. #3
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    I suspect that the Paramedic had his ego bruised by not being allowed in to what the Fire Service probably still regarded as an unsafe area. Do paramedics have B/A for example?
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojan 42 View Post
    I suspect that the Paramedic had his ego bruised by not being allowed in to what the Fire Service probably still regarded as an unsafe area. Do paramedics have B/A for example?
    They didn't in 2005 but now following this incident and others they have Hazardous Area Response Teams (HART) who are trained in using BA, CBRN, public order and a few other roles which the ambulance service couldn't do before.


    I guess the underground staff and BTP who were first on scene didn't have BA or other specialist PPE when they first attended.


    Without actually hearing all the witness testomony or reading all the statements it won't be clear whether it was arrogant firefighters believing that everyone else is there to assist them in being a hero and the ambulance driver should have just taken as many of the people they had saved away or whether it was a complete lack of understanding of how things work and when the shit hit the fan no one really knew what was going on.


    Quote Originally Posted by Motorwaycop
    Lets face it we rarely work together at any major incident and the police desire to preserve the scene is always in conflict with the other services.
    Thats sadly true I've never done an exercise at work most of my knowledge of major incidents comes from my volunteer role and a few years in the TA where I've had something to do with major incident training every 2 or 3 years.
    "all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" Edmund Burke.
    "the world is a dangerous place place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who do not do anything about it" Albert Einstein

  5. #5
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    Fair points, but I know that the LFB entered the underground wearing full hazchem suits, as it was not known what type of bomb/incident they were dealing with. It's always easy to criticise after the event, but imagine what the reaction would have been had the Ambo guy been allowed in and had died from some chemical poisoning. We, as cops, know you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.
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    It was apparently the fact that the brigade wanted the first paramedic to take the casualties on scene whereas he was telling them he needed to stay to assess what was required from a medical point of view and act as the forward control point for ambo.
    Don't think it related to the availability of BA.
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  7. #7
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    Ah, fair point MC. I can see both sides, more medics would be arriving as well as Doctors, so I can understand the desire to get some casualties away asap. And as can be seen from the pics of the day, NO one set up an outer cordon in case of secondaries. Lessons obviously forgotten, because we did that during the IRA campaign in London. As we taught you can always bring a cordon in closer but you can never move it out.
    To be born an Englishman, is to be a winner in the Lottery of Life.



    I've Talked the Talk and I've Walked the Walk, now I Sit the Sit!

    It's not until you look at an Ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day, that you realise just how often they burst into flames for no reason!

 

 

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