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  1. #1
    keith720's Avatar
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    Wisconsin Sh!t Blizzard.

    Now is not a good time to be working for the State in Wisconsin. Regardless of whether you are on the union or management side, Democrat or Republican, I can't help but feel things are going to get nasty. The Republican Senate and Assembly side-stepped the Democrats by removing the collective bargaining issue from fiscal measures and were able to vote on it and do away with it. At the same time, fourteen Senate Democrats were hiding out in Illinois and doing nothing to represent their constituents. Now, death threats are being sent to members of the Senate and assembly that voted against the union. The State Capitol has been over-run by protesters. Under the new measures, the union has no authority to collect dues on anything other than a voluntary basis starting March 13, and the State can't automatically deduct and pay union dues for any members. All memos of understanding and local agreements remain in effect until July, but it's anyone's guess what will happen after that. It's times like this that I'm fortunate to be on the back end of my career.
    For the morning will come. Brightly will it shine on the brave and true, kindly upon all who suffer for the cause, glorious upon the tombs of heroes. Thus will shine the dawn.

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  2. #2
    Five-0's Avatar
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    Good luck to you and those on the ground that will have to deal with it.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

  3. #3
    213th's Avatar
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    It would seem on one side, there is a desire to see a government "of the unions, by the unions, for the unions". And on the other side, a government of we will do what we want and screw you if you don't support us.
    He who has the money, signs the cheques.
    He who signs the cheques, makes the rules.
    He who makes the rules, has the power.
    He who has the power, has the money.

  4. #4
    Five-0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 213th View Post
    It would seem on one side, there is a desire to see a government "of the unions, by the unions, for the unions". And on the other side, a government of we will do what we want and screw you if you don't support us.
    I see that as half right.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

  5. #5
    Jenna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    I see that as half right.
    So do I.

  6. #6
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna View Post
    So do I.
    You probably misunderstood his quote.

    What just happened in Wisconsin is collective bargaining.

    For the taxpayer.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


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  7. #7
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    Just remember that the people that did this were voted on and put in that position by the people of WI. If you don't like it, don't vote for them next time.

    Then again, I have never worked anywhere with any kind of bargaining or protection. We are at-will. Maybe I don't understand the issue totally.
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  8. #8
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cidp24 View Post
    Just remember that the people that did this were voted on and put in that position by the people of WI. If you don't like it, don't vote for them next time.

    Then again, I have never worked anywhere with any kind of bargaining or protection. We are at-will. Maybe I don't understand the issue totally.
    I'd say you understand it damn good.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  9. #9
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    I don't have the luxury of collective bargaining or a contract due to the size of our agency. Initially, in Ohio situation I was scared because of the trickle down effect (for the working officer) from Union agencies to smaller agencies without unions. Policies (both favorable and non) of larger agencies were the baseline for smaller agencies.

    Since then, the other little known facts of SB5 here have emerged, and this thing can be very bad for those of us working in small departments. Larger agencies making the union money won't like it, but even with the likely cuts they'll face, they'll still be better off than us little guys.
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  10. #10
    MacLean's Avatar
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    In Wisconsin, they exempted Police and Firefighters.

    The issue was the teachers, in large part.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  11. #11
    213th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    I see that as half right.
    Just curious, but which half? If you prefer to PM thats cool.
    He who has the money, signs the cheques.
    He who signs the cheques, makes the rules.
    He who makes the rules, has the power.
    He who has the power, has the money.

  12. #12
    srab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacLean View Post
    You probably misunderstood his quote.

    What just happened in Wisconsin is collective bargaining.

    For the taxpayer.

    That's a good way of putting it. But what will end up happening, is a loss of quality service and democratic principles for all. While the public servants are getting the primary brunt of the initial bill and media attention, ALL collective bargaining stands to lose the efforts of last 50years. The 14 missing should not only be recalled, but held administratively and professionally liable, as would be in any other profession. Not that their presence would have really mattered. I think the original votes were good, but few could foresee things being this drastic. The next vote may remedy some things, but it may be too late for others.
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  13. #13
    213th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 213th View Post
    It would seem on one side, there is a desire to see a government "of the unions, by the unions, for the unions". And on the other side, a government of we will do what we want and screw you if you don't support us.
    And I'll clarify.

    The unions contribute significantly to the Democrats here. I wouldn't be suprised to see that find out that the unions were directly responsible for the large amounts of protestors. For one, the unions were providing signs and food. The difference between the numbers for and against, I think are not related so much to how people feel as much as it is the fact that the unions are already organized and have money to throw into this, where as the rest of us aren't and don't. I think the foolish fourteen ran away because they are controlled by the union and aren't in it for the people.

    On the other hand, it seemed rather heavy handed and 'me' centered in the way the bill was presented, and then again passed. I understand that 3 weeks is a significant amount of time to give someone to come around, but the Democrats did make mediocre concessions, where as the Republicans said they were willing but didn't really follow through. At the very least they should have agreed to not bring it to a vote until the 14 had a chance to make their point. The phone call involving the Governor underlined the sentiment of "at all costs", which to me inherently excludes the opinions of the people, who ultimately are who all elected officials are to work with.

    I feel personally that I'd have felt better defending the Governor and Republicans (whom over all I do support) if the bill hadn't been so far reaching. I feel that no one should be forced to be a part of a union, but I also feel that if someone wants to be a part of a union they shouldn't be prohibited. I feel that merit based raises are more effective in several areas then automatic raises. Also an easier process for removing underperforming or unfit employees is always a good thing.

    I think over all, unions have served their original purpose now that there are sufficient labor laws in affect. I think it's only a matter of time (for good or bad) before we start seeing the new face of unions everywhere.
    He who has the money, signs the cheques.
    He who signs the cheques, makes the rules.
    He who makes the rules, has the power.
    He who has the power, has the money.

  14. #14
    Five-0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 213th View Post
    Just curious, but which half? If you prefer to PM thats cool.

    I work in a right to work state, and I'm doing very well. Without knowing specific agency details in WI my guess is that insurance and retirement contributions by employees will go up, and rightfully so. I also think that wages will go up. Some people will keep contributing to their own retirement to compensate and some will not, free will and personal responsibility there. The unfunded liabilities for Wisconsin will go down. That is better for the state and "every" citizen therein. There will be some departments (bigger ones) that will pay better and get better people for it. There will also be some smaller departments that go away/covered by/ taken over by larger agencies. Those people will most likely be better served and the officers that are taken over will be better compensated, trained,and held to a higher standard. I see that as a win for the good officers and the communities they serve.


    This opinion is based on what I see in my home state, and what I think I will see in my home state. I consider my agency one of if not the best local agency in AL (not perfect but damn good). We are compensated well, trained well, and held to a high standard. We also contract out services for smaller municipalities, and believe me they are better off for it.

    Then again, aren't police and fire exempt in WI? As far as the politics, those that left should be thrown out of office for dereliction of duty if possible. If you disagree you vote against it not run away. I know I come off as anti-Union. Believe me I have my reasons. I've been to many a union meeting with my old man who was a steel worker. I could ramble on, but I've got 16 hour day ahead. To be honest this a conversation I would rather have in person with people on here so nothing is taken out of context or misunderstood. I feel strongly about this issue, but not as strongly as I do about some of the relationships I've developed on here with people I have never met in person.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

  15. #15
    213th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    To be honest this a conversation I would rather have in person with people on here so nothing is taken out of context or misunderstood. I feel strongly about this issue, but not as strongly as I do about some of the relationships I've developed on here with people I have never met in person.
    Thats cool. I understand what you mean. We're pretty close on our opinions I think. Thanks for sharing.
    He who has the money, signs the cheques.
    He who signs the cheques, makes the rules.
    He who makes the rules, has the power.
    He who has the power, has the money.

  16. #16
    k9ldypawses's Avatar
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    Is everyone keeping a 1/4 eye on the New Madrid fault line and Gulf???? A lot of craziness going on! Have a Blessed Day!!

  17. #17
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    The HAARP/ELFs Got Everything jumping.. Sure don't care for that music.. Bless everyone up there and all over !! Hang tight, Be careful!

 

 

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