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07-23-11, 11:46 AM #1Rookie
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Ohio officer goes berserk on concealed carrier
Canton, OH officer in the video is shown walking up to the vehicle after a few moments and the man tries to say he's carrying but got interrupted. After the driver is taken out of the car he tells the cop again he is carrying and the cop loses it and also threatens the man. Video is a little long but it's subtitled to help you follow.
And from the site:
"On June 8, 2011 the following unfortunate arrest took place in Canton, OH. Notifying the policy when you have a firearm is required by Ohio Law, but when this individual with a thirty-day old license tries to do that he is repeatedly ordered to look away, shut up, or interrupted and "forced" to change what he is speaking about by the actions of an aggressive cop who maintains verbal control of the situation.
A two man car dealing with three people put itself at risk when one officer started what appears to be an illegal search of the rear of the car without extracting or securing the driver - which would have given him an opportunity to notify.
What follows is horrific example of a police officer losing all self-control, threatening to beat the female, threatening to beat the driver and eventually saying he should have executed him "and wouldn't have lost any sleep over it" that night."
LiveLeak.com - Dash Cam: Canton PD "Notification" Arrest & Officer Goes Berserk / Threatens Execution
At 13:30 you can here the officer saying "As soon as I saw your gun I should have taken two steps back, pulled my Glock 40, and just put 10 bullets in your ass and let you drop"
And here is an update of what happened to the officer:
07-23-11, 12:00 PM #2
This has been an ongoing discussion on another part of the board. Below is the law in OH regarding the situation, and my discussion on the incident. Was it wrong? Absolutely. Why it happened is yet to be determined. Understanding why it happened is how we keep it from happening again.
Does make me wonder if there is something in his past that set him off. A similar circumstance that happened to him or some other officer he knows. A high stress event that was recalled in his mind by this incident that caused him go off. I keep watching this over and over and see that there was plenty of time for the driver to say he was armed. Subsection (2) of the earlier cited law states:
(B) No person who has been issued a license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code or a license to carry a concealed handgun that was issued by another state with which the attorney general has entered into a reciprocity agreement under section 109.69 of the Revised Code shall do any of the following:
(1) If the person is stopped for a law enforcement purpose and is carrying a concealed handgun, fail to promptly inform any law enforcement officer who approaches the person after the person has been stopped that the person has been issued a license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun and that the person then is carrying a concealed handgun;
(2) If the person is stopped for a law enforcement purpose and if the person is carrying a concealed handgun, knowingly fail to keep the person’s hands in plain sight at any time after any law enforcement officer begins approaching the person while stopped and before the law enforcement officer leaves, unless the failure is pursuant to and in accordance with directions given by a law enforcement officer;
(3) If the person is stopped for a law enforcement purpose, if the person is carrying a concealed handgun, and if the person is approached by any law enforcement officer while stopped, knowingly remove or attempt to remove the loaded handgun from the holster, pocket, or other place in which the person is carrying it, knowingly grasp or hold the loaded handgun, or knowingly have contact with the loaded handgun by touching it with the person’s hands or fingers at any time after the law enforcement officer begins approaching and before the law enforcement officer leaves, unless the person removes, attempts to remove, grasps, holds, or has contact with the loaded handgun pursuant to and in accordance with directions given by the law enforcement officer;
(4) If the person is stopped for a law enforcement purpose and if the person is carrying a concealed handgun, knowingly disregard or fail to comply with any lawful order of any law enforcement officer given while the person is stopped, including, but not limited to, a specific order to the person to keep the person’s hands in plain sight.
Having said that, I have had people that have their hands outside of a rolled down window when I approach. Some are people that have had run ins with the police and others are people that are telling me they are armed without saying "I have a gun". The driver's hands were never in view until he was taken out of the car. Had he kept his hands up or our the window I can't help but think the officer would take notice of the action and find out why. That would count as notifying the officer of the weapon in my opinion.
My advice for new cops watching this is to look at it like a use of force. The +1 rule of using just more force than you are faced with in a situation. I use the same approach when it comes to talking to people I contact. 90% of the time I'm using a conversation voice. This officer went straight to yelling and cursing when those he was contacting were not. This leads a person watching this video that he was out of control and not thinking rationally. How you say something is often more important than what you say. We can all say we know why he was pissed. We are cops that have been there. The public that has not been in this situation or one similar just see an officer that is suppossed to be in control flipping out. Are there times when yelling and cursing are useful, absolutely. If telling someone to show their fucking hands gets the point across and keeps you from having to shoot them that is justified. I could defend my actions in court on that basis. The actions in this video not so much. Again, I think something in this officer's past touched this off. Not defending the actions presented, but I am trying to understand them. Makes me wonder if the officer was a combat veteren. I know this is some deep stuff regarding the psychology of past tramatic stress events, but they don't just go away. Knowing the why of such events is helpful in correcting them. I have seen reactions like this from past victims of crime, veterans not in law enforcement I've contacted ect.
Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat
"Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway
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