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  1. #1
    Piggybank Cop's Avatar
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    Protestant church leaders ask Sinn Fein to back Northern Ireland police

    Protestant church leaders ask Sinn Fein to back Northern Ireland police

    ASSOCIATED PRESS

    BELFAST, Northern Ireland, Oct. 23 The leader of a major Protestant church appealed to Sinn Fein Monday to support the province's police force the last obstacle to revived power-sharing in this British territory.

    Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams welcomed his first official meeting with Archbishop Robin Eames of the Anglican-affiliated Church of Ireland, the second-largest Protestant denomination in Northern Ireland. Eames' previous contacts with Adams had been kept secret because of widespread Protestant hostility to Sinn Fein, the Irish Republican Army-linked party.
    ''It is important we had this meeting. It is a sign of the times and long may it continue,'' said Adams, 56, who has spent two decades transforming his party from a political pariah into the major force in Northern Ireland's Catholic minority.
    After their 90-minute meeting, Eames said he and four bishops who attended the session emphasized that Sinn Fein must drop its decades-old opposition to the Northern Ireland police.
    The predominantly Protestant police force is midway through a 10-year reform program designed to spur Catholic support, but Sinn Fein has rejected it as inadequate.
    ''The bishops stated their belief that political and social progress can only be achieved by full and equal participation in the structures of democracy with support for policing,'' Eames said in Stormont Parliamentary Building, where Monday's talks took place.
    The Democratic Unionists, the main representative of Northern Ireland's British Protestant majority, say they will not resume cooperation with Adams until Sinn Fein accepts the legitimacy of the Police Service of Northern Ireland. Forging a stable Catholic-Protestant administration was the central goal of the U.S.-brokered Good Friday peace accord of 1998, but the last coalition fell apart in 2002 over an IRA spying scandal.
    An Anglo-Irish plan announced on Oct. 13 challenges Sinn Fein to accept the police as a prerequisite to revived power-sharing. The plan calls for the Northern Ireland Assembly to elect the top two Democratic Unionist and Sinn Fein ministers on Nov. 24 and the remaining 10 members by March 14, by which time an emergency Sinn Fein party conference should have voted to back the police.
    ''Everybody knows the timetable. Everybody knows the clock is ticking and counting down,'' said Northern Ireland Secretary Peter Hain, who warned that failure by either side to observe their end of the proposed deal would mean the dissolution of the assembly after Nov. 24.
    While power-sharing remains a dream, Hain governs this corner of the United Kingdom with a team of London-based lawmakers. That system, called ''direct rule,'' was imposed in 1972, the bloodiest year of the conflict over Northern Ireland that has claimed nearly 3,700 lives since 1969.
    But last year, the IRA surrendered its weapons stockpiles and formally abandoned its campaign to overthrow Northern Ireland by force breakthroughs designed to support a return to power-sharing.
    The Adams-Eames meeting came three weeks after a more groundbreaking first encounter between Democratic Unionist leader Ian Paisley and Archbishop Sean Brady, leader of Ireland's 4 million Catholics, at Stormont.
    Paisley, who leads his own hard-line evangelical sect called the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster, had long branded Catholic Church leaders as evil and Catholic teachings as corrupt.
    Adams says he hopes to persuade most of Northern Ireland's Protestants to accept they are Irish rather than British, and to throw their backing behind the political unification of Ireland, the traditional IRA goal.
    Sinn Fein already has built diplomatic links with leaders of other Protestant churches, particularly the Presbyterians, the largest Protestant denomination. Northern Ireland has more than 50 Protestant denominations


    Hey Garda what do you think?

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  2. #2
    Trojan 42's Avatar
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    Well they've given in to the terrorist scumbag on everything else. Even changed the name from Royal Ulster Constabulary to Police Service Northern Ireland just to appease them! It still sticks in my throat that they allow Adams and McGuiness to strut round like legitimate politicians.
    To be born an Englishman, is to be a winner in the Lottery of Life.



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  3. #3
    conalabu is offline Grasshopper
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    Its a nice gesture, but unfortunately, Adams is wrong. There aren't many Irish left in Northern Ireland. The plan of Edward Longshanks for the Scots worked just as well in N.I., the Brits pretty much bred the Irish out. Which isn't to say that I think the Brits have any right at all to N.I. or that I think they shouldn't get their...selves out. I am trying to be nice for my British friends.
    And Shepards we shall be,
    for thee, My Lord, for thee,
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand,
    That our feet may swiftly carry out Thy Command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee
    And teeming with souls will it ever be.
    In Nomine Patris, Et Filli, Et Spiritus Sancti.

  4. #4
    Trojan 42's Avatar
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    But a lot of the Northern Ireland population regard themselves AS British, just as those in the Falkland Islands do and we went to war with Argentina over it. In 10 years time will the US treat Osama Bin Laden as a legitimate politician on equal terms and give him a seat in your senate (or whatever it is you call government over there)? I think not.
    To be born an Englishman, is to be a winner in the Lottery of Life.



    I've Talked the Talk and I've Walked the Walk, now I Sit the Sit!

    It's not until you look at an Ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day, that you realise just how often they burst into flames for no reason!

  5. #5
    conalabu is offline Grasshopper
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojan 42 View Post
    But a lot of the Northern Ireland population regard themselves AS British, just as those in the Falkland Islands do and we went to war with Argentina over it. In 10 years time will the US treat Osama Bin Laden as a legitimate politician on equal terms and give him a seat in your senate (or whatever it is you call government over there)? I think not.
    Trojan, let me start off saying I respect you a lot from the things you say and the things you have done. I do not mean this as an attack on you. That being said, Osama Bin Laden is not fighting to regain a piece of his country that was taken from him over a period of 800 years by use of rape, pillage, murder, deceit, forced starvation, slavery, and about a million other things. Granted, Sinn Fein has done some vicious and over the edge things more than once, but so has England.This is not a small problem that can solved by small concessions. Of course the US is not going to grant Osama political status, but what Osama represents and what Adams represents are two entirely different things.
    And Shepards we shall be,
    for thee, My Lord, for thee,
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand,
    That our feet may swiftly carry out Thy Command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee
    And teeming with souls will it ever be.
    In Nomine Patris, Et Filli, Et Spiritus Sancti.

  6. #6
    Standard Dave's Avatar
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    I'm not sure an terrorist is different to another (freedom fighter or terrorist they all kill without just cause).

    How would you from the US feel if native americans started bombing homes and businesses or killing civil servants with sniping rifles and telling people to go back to europe/ south america or africa where you came from ?

  7. #7
    conalabu is offline Grasshopper
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    They did for a few centuries, Dave. Then they stopped. Now they are using political means to get what they want. And honestly, some of them are doing an amazing job at using the laws the US passed against the US in getting back what they lost. In any case, I knew better than to chime in on this, I do not wish to alienate or anger people I respect here. Sorry.
    And Shepards we shall be,
    for thee, My Lord, for thee,
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand,
    That our feet may swiftly carry out Thy Command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee
    And teeming with souls will it ever be.
    In Nomine Patris, Et Filli, Et Spiritus Sancti.

  8. #8
    Garda's Avatar
    Garda is offline Policing with nothing but a smile
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1sgkelly View Post
    Hey Garda what do you think?

    This is not a topic I think should be discussed as it WILL become heated. I will say is that both sides in the North have commited terrible acts.

    SinnFein/IRA as well as the UDA and the various other sections are criminals using political goals as a cover for their actions. Its been dopcumented time and time again, drugs, hits, Robberies, killing of police officers, etc.
    Paisley is hell bent on a genocide and is free about admitting it whereas Adams is just a little more savvy and PR conscience but their goals remain largely the same, just against eachother. I am not a fan of either and I do not support either SinnFein nor the Orangemen marching in Dublin.

    I would have to agree with their distrust of the former RUC as it was a Protestant force and while the majority, like most police forces, were honest and trying to do their jobs, there was a distinct number that openly colluded with Loyalist groups. The UDR, in my opinion, take the majority of the blame for that however, as do the B specials. Lets also not forget that the Dublin bombing of 1974 was as the result of shady police/military activities from both sides of the border and the UK as well as plain bad police work. Theres still questions that need answering about that.

    When it comes to NI I personally feel that Catholics have genuine grievances however I DO NOT support the Provos and anyone that knows Gardai knows that we are very active in combating them and Republican sympathies is not a character trait looked for in recruits. In fact its become a joke for our reserve ads "Want to become a Garda? All you need is an unhealthy interest and hatred for Republicans"

    As for the name change, well I guess some might not see it but asking someone who considers themselves Irish too declare allegiance to the Queen is going to put them off. Also the actual name itself was offensive towards Catholics. The new name, PSNI is right, its a force for the area it polices not a foreign body, either English or Irish. I mean, how would it go down if they were called Gardai and expected to salute our tricolour?

    As for not many Irish in NI, well thats all a view point because NI qualifies for both passports and it depends which you take, some will have both. I know in the 70's Catholics outnumbered Protestants but Im not sure now as migration, etc during those years was a big occurance.

    Personally I think the only answer is to declare an independent nation and let them sort it out because I can never see either sides agreeing or settling while theres input from the Republic and England. The scars and hatred simple runs too deep for many. If you remove the tie with the UK and the supposed possibility of uniting Ireland then both sides lose much of their arguement and at this stage, I dont think either nation actually wants the hot potatoe that is NI.

    As for me, well I was never effected but I am proud of my ancestors who were IRA men during the former days and as a police officer I work with both UK officers and those from the PSNI to combat crime and terrorism. Links need to be made and the past put behind. Theres no point in blaming modern day officers for what long retired or dead ones did or did not do. For example, whats the point in hating white Americans for slavery? Or for that matter, All Englishmen because of the War of Independence? Im sure terrible things happened then but its hardly Daves fault or anyone elses thats alive.

    And thats my political analysis of Northern Ireland.
    Last edited by Garda; 10-25-06 at 02:14 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TXCharlie
    Hey thanks Garda - I did think of you last night as I was lying in bed

  9. #9
    Trojan 42's Avatar
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    Nicely done Garda. And Conalabu, you won't upset me (unless you insult my Queen). We are all entitled to an opinion on things. The fact that mine are always right and everyone else's are wrong is just one of those strange facts of life.

    A Terrorist is a Terrorist whatever their cause. Although I think there is a saying, One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
    To be born an Englishman, is to be a winner in the Lottery of Life.



    I've Talked the Talk and I've Walked the Walk, now I Sit the Sit!

    It's not until you look at an Ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day, that you realise just how often they burst into flames for no reason!

  10. #10
    Garda's Avatar
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    Trojan,
    I actually did my thesus on terrorism and the definition I found to fit the best was a terrorist commits acts of aggression against civilians typically on foreign soil, a freedom fighter commits aggression against foreign armed personel on home soil.

    Not the greatest I know but I dont think it will ever fall into a neat little definition.
    Quote Originally Posted by TXCharlie
    Hey thanks Garda - I did think of you last night as I was lying in bed

  11. #11
    Piggybank Cop's Avatar
    Piggybank Cop is offline Nobody important.
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    Thanks guys.

    We are the thin blue line
    between you
    and all the money in the world.

    And no you can't have any.

 

 

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