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    Joe the Plumber: ‘I think media should be abolished’ from reporting on war

    Joe the Plumber: ‘I think media should be abolished’ from reporting on war.»

    Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher, aka “Joe the Plumber,” is currently in Israel covering the war for the conservative site PJTV.com. When asked what he has learned from his new experiences as a journalist, Wurzelbacher said that he believes the media shouldn’t be allowed to do “reporting” on wars:
    I’ll be honest with you. I don’t think journalists should be anywhere allowed war. I mean, you guys report where our troops are at. You report what’s happening day to day. You make a big deal out of it. I think it’s asinine. You know, I liked back in World War I and World War II when you’d go to the theater and you’d see your troops on, you know, the screen and everyone would be real excited and happy for’em. Now everyone’s got an opinion and wants to downer–and down soldiers. You know, American soldiers or Israeli soldiers.
    I think media should be abolished from, uh, you know, reporting. You know, war is hell. And if you’re gonna sit there and say, “Well look at this atrocity,” well you don’t know the whole story behind it half the time, so I think the media should have no business in it.

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    I had hoped the last time I'd hear from Joe the Plummer was after McCain lost. Between overusing Joe the Plummer & the term "Maverick", it got plumb silly for a while.

    Kinda reminds me of that DEA agent who shot himself in the foot - Apparently, Joe's the only person in the room "profeshional 'nuff" to report on the war.

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    I agree with you TX, but he's also got a good point. I've never understood why we publicize as much as we do when it comes to our troops.
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    Yeah, while we're at it. Let's just abolish that whole 1st amendment thing.

    I think the public should be allowed to file a class action suit against the media, however, whenever they show bias under unbias pretense.
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking." -Gen. George S. Patton

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    Emedding the reporters wasn't a bad idea, though - That way if they misbehave like Geraldo did, the commander can take their satellite phones away from them and leave them in the desert.

    I think the bigger problem has been the media reporting only the bad side of war - Wars have their good side too, especially when the bad guys die.

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    I kind of liked Joe of course I liked Sarah Palin. Joe wasn't really that keen on McCain but felt Sarah Palin was the real deal. I know all the libs like smooth lie telling attributes of the Democrats but look a Harry Truman, just a common sense person that honored the office and did a good job by doing what he felt was the right thing.

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    Does the term "yellow journalism" ring a bell with anyone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morris View Post
    Does the term "yellow journalism" ring a bell with anyone?
    "Yellow journalism" has always been a part of journalism, but there is still a lot of good that comes out of reporting, and war journalism has almost always been a positive thing for the troops.

    We have always been consumers of sensational news, and the media responds to what sells.
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    I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are.
    William Tecumseh Sherman

    If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast.
    William Tecumseh Sherman

    Perhaps he spoke of our current circumstances well before the times called for it.

    This war differs from other wars, in this particular. We are not fighting armies but a hostile people, and must make old and young, rich and poor, feel the hard hand of war.
    William Tecumseh Sherman

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

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    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

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    A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.
    Winston Churchill

    In wartime, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies.
    Winston Churchill

    There are a terrible lot of lies going about the world, and the worst of it is that half of them are true.
    Winston Churchill

    My point is, that lies will prevail when good reporting is absent. It isn't wise to stop war reports, but it's to our advantage to make sure that the reporters have access to the truth, so that it has some chance of being reported.

    The biggest problem with the truth is that lies are more dramatic and sell more advertising.

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    Bob Loblaw thinks "Joe the Plumber" should shut the hell up.

    Local everyman Bob Loblaw has grown weary of Samuel "Joe the Plumber" Wurzelbacher's tiresome rants. Loblaw thinks Wurzelbacher should shut the hell up and go back to whatever the hell it was doing before the Presidential election, which probably included drinking Pabst Blue Ribbon while lecturing the neighborhood stray cats about how doctors shouldn't need a license to practice medicine "'cause a human body really is just like a toilet tank..you've got your pipes and your valves and your flanges. It's all plumbing, man."
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna
    he (Obama) doesn't have a birth certificate because he wasn't born, he was created in a Muslim witch's cauldron!
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    Vietnam still shudders when it hears the name of a an assasin so skillful and deadly, he is remembered decades later
    Reca is the best thing since sliced bread!

  12. #12
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    You take that back, there is nothing wrong with PBR!!!

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

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  13. #13
    Bob Loblaw's Avatar
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    Alas, I do love an ice cold can of PBR myself, but i was trying to come up with a very "common" type beer. Maybe Natty Lite would've been better?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna
    he (Obama) doesn't have a birth certificate because he wasn't born, he was created in a Muslim witch's cauldron!
    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    I must admit, there have been few pieces of meat I've ever jammed into my mouth that have been as satisfying as Bob's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gecko45 "The Mall Ninja"
    Vietnam still shudders when it hears the name of a an assasin so skillful and deadly, he is remembered decades later
    Reca is the best thing since sliced bread!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    You take that back, there is nothing wrong with PBR!!!



    We have to get you up here to the northwest where you can try a proper micro-brew.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

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    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  15. #15
    Bob Loblaw's Avatar
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    If I may derail this thread a little further off course, I am a connoisseur of beers, Maclean. Cheap beers. Keystone, PBR, Lone Star (my favorite), Strohs...I even once closed a big insurance sale (back in the pre-LE days) over a table full of empty Pearl cans. If you ever head down to Texas, lemme know...there's a great bar in Dallas (Deep Ellum section) called "Longhorns" that sells big-ass hamburgers and $1 cans of Lone Star. And I'f I'm ever up NW, I'll call you and we can share some bottles of "beer" with hints of blackberries and peat moss.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna
    he (Obama) doesn't have a birth certificate because he wasn't born, he was created in a Muslim witch's cauldron!
    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    I must admit, there have been few pieces of meat I've ever jammed into my mouth that have been as satisfying as Bob's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gecko45 "The Mall Ninja"
    Vietnam still shudders when it hears the name of a an assasin so skillful and deadly, he is remembered decades later
    Reca is the best thing since sliced bread!

  16. #16
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    A free society can't stop journalists. But we don't have to accommodate them either. Any journalist who shows up in your position should be detained as a possible spy, their crap confiscated (and mailed home snail mail) and left behind. They should receive no special battlefield accommodation either. If they are down range or in the way of artillery that's the risk they take upon themselves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    You take that back, there is nothing wrong with PBR!!!
    As long as it's stuffed in the ass of a roasted chicken

    ("Beer Can Chicken" is a gormet delicacy around here)

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    Quote Originally Posted by TXCharlie View Post
    As long as it's stuffed in the ass of a roasted chicken

    ("Beer Can Chicken" is a gormet delicacy around here)

    Here as well, along with deep fried turkey. Mmmmm gooooooood.
    "The inherent vice of Capitalism is the unequal sharing of its blessings; the inherent vice of Socialism is the equal sharing of its miseries." -Winston Churchill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xiphos View Post
    A free society can't stop journalists. But we don't have to accommodate them either. Any journalist who shows up in your position should be detained as a possible spy, their crap confiscated (and mailed home snail mail) and left behind. They should receive no special battlefield accommodation either. If they are down range or in the way of artillery that's the risk they take upon themselves.
    Why? Because they might write stories like this?

    PrintEmailRedditDiggPTSD victim booted for ‘misconduct’
    By Kelly Kennedy - Staff writer
    Posted : Saturday Jan 10, 2009 7:00:58 EST
    After serving two tours in Iraq — tours filled with killing enemy combatants and watching close friends die — Sgt. Adam Boyle, 27, returned home expecting the Army to take care of him.

    Instead, service member advocates and Boyle’s mother say his chain of command in the 3rd Psychological Operations Battalion at Fort Bragg, N.C., worked to end his military career at the first sign of weakness.

    In October, a medical evaluation board physician at Bragg recommended that Boyle go through the military disability retirement process for chronic post-traumatic stress disorder — which is supposed to automatically earn him at least a 50 percent disability retirement rating — as well as for chronic headaches. The doctor also diagnosed Boyle with alcohol abuse and said he was probably missing formations due to the medications doctors put him on to treat his PTSD.

    But in December, Lt. Gen. John Mulholland, commanding general of the U.S. Army Special Operations Command, signed an order forcing Boyle out on an administrative discharge for a “pattern of misconduct,” and ordering that the soldier pay back his re-enlistment bonus.

    Last year, after a number of troops diagnosed with PTSD were administratively forced out for “personality disorders” following combat deployments, the Defense Department changed its rules: The pertinent service surgeon general now must sign off on any personality-disorder discharge if a service member has been diagnosed with PTSD.

    “Not even a year later, they’re pushing them out administratively for ‘pattern of misconduct,’ ” said Carissa Picard, an attorney and founder of Military Spouses for Change, a group created in response to the personality-disorder cases. “I’m so angry. We’re seeing it all the time. And it’s for petty stuff.”

    In Boyle’s case, according to Picard and Boyle’s mother, Laura Curtiss, the soldier had gotten in trouble for missing morning formations and for alcohol-related incidents such as fighting and public drunkenness.

    “The whole thing is absurd to me,” Picard said. “They acknowledge that PTSD causes misconduct, and then they boot them out for misconduct.”

    Carol Darby, spokeswoman for Special Operations Command, said she could not discuss personnel administrative or medical issues, and that the Army did not have a response to the case as of Tuesday evening.

    Doctors first diagnosed Boyle with PTSD after his second deployment ended in 2006, when he moved to a new unit. After he missed his first formation, he said he went in to talk to his first sergeant to explain he was having problems with depression, PTSD and insomnia. But after that, he said, no one ever asked how he was doing.

    “They just said, ‘You messed up. Here’s what we’re going to do to you,’ ” Boyle said. “I would have loved it if someone had sat me down and had a heart-to-heart with me. I tried. I stuck with the counseling.”

    But counseling at Fort Bragg was also difficult, he said, because there were not enough doctors for more than one counseling session a month, and because he had to explain his story to seven different therapists over two years.

    He received two Article 15s, one for not reporting to duty while helping a girlfriend who had been in a car accident, and one for not returning home three days early from leave after drunk-and-disorderly conduct in a bar. Over that time, he said he was also experiencing flashbacks, anger-management and relationship issues, trust issues and guilt.

    Picard said she has seen at least a dozen cases of soldiers with PTSD being pushed out for a “pattern of misconduct.”

    Chuck Luther, also with Military Spouses for Change, said he’s working on four cases similar to Boyle’s now.

    “I’ve seen the office of the surgeon general doing some great things,” Picard said. “But they didn’t intervene in this case. Technically, it’s OK. Morally, is it OK? No. If they’re going to call it a combat injury, they need to treat it, or else people will be afraid to come forward.”

    Boyle’s mother gave another reason: “You can hear it in his voice,” Curtiss said. “He can’t believe the Army’s doing this to him. He needs counseling. He needs medication. He needs it even more now because of what they’ve put him through.”

    Curtiss contacted Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., and a spokesman said the senator has been in contact with the Army several times about the case.

    Boyle always wanted to be in the Army, Curtiss said, and served in junior ROTC while in high school. He planned to be an officer, worked as psychological operations sergeant, received a Good Conduct Medal and two Army Commendation medals, and wanted to spend his career in the military. Instead, he was twice diagnosed with PTSD and said he enrolled himself in the Army’s substance abuse program and went to group and individual counseling for his disorder, just as he was supposed to.

    The administrative discharge means Boyle will have to prove that his PTSD is service-connected when applying for benefits from the Department of Veterans Affairs, and he’s not eligible to immediately receive the counseling he needs through the transition program for service members moving between the military and VA systems.

    “The military is creating a societal issue,” Luther said. “These guys come out with no resources, and they’re angry and feeling betrayed. But commanders are thinking, ‘Do I rehabilitate him or do I get rid of him expeditiously so I can replace him with someone who can deploy?’ ”

    Paul Sullivan, executive director of Veterans for Common Sense, said the Army should have provided Boyle with legal representation; that Boyle should remain in military therapy until VA processes his claim; that he should get an honorable discharge and go through the disability retirement process; and that the military needs to apply the same rules to “pattern of misconduct” as it does to personality disorders.

    “The military should be concerned about the welfare of the soldier,” Sullivan said.

    Retired Army Lt. Col. Mike Parker, who has worked as an advocate for service members going through the disability retirement system, said the cases are frustrating because veterans’ groups just fought to get the military to automatically award 50 percent disability ratings for people with PTSD severe enough to force them to leave the service, as is required by law. Many troops with PTSD had been receiving far lower ratings.

    “Even though they have this new regulation saying they can’t kick them out for personality disorders, they can still kick them out for misconduct,” he said. “Everything they say, they have an escape clause.”

    Boyle received word that Mulholland was standing behind his decision.

    That means Boyle must repay the Army $18,500 for his re-enlistment bonus. The Army also withheld 65 days’ worth of leave payments and his final paycheck.

    “I have nothing,” Boyle said. “After all I did for the Army, they took my money and kicked me to the curb and said, ‘Don’t let the door hit you in the ass.’ ”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw View Post
    Bob Loblaw thinks "Joe the Plumber" should shut the hell up.

    Local everyman Bob Loblaw has grown weary of Samuel "Joe the Plumber" Wurzelbacher's tiresome rants. Loblaw thinks Wurzelbacher should shut the hell up and go back to whatever the hell it was doing before the Presidential election, which probably included drinking Pabst Blue Ribbon while lecturing the neighborhood stray cats about how doctors shouldn't need a license to practice medicine "'cause a human body really is just like a toilet tank..you've got your pipes and your valves and your flanges. It's all plumbing, man."
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Bob Loblaw again.
    Molly Weasley makes Chuck Norris eat his vegetables.

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