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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    I showed you evidence.
    Nowhwere in the video you posted did anyone say shit about "a law that gives the government the right to use force against me without due process as protected by the Constitution."

    Fail. You did not show evidence to support your assertion.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    Fail. You did not show evidence to support your assertion.
    Did you watch the video? If that Librarian hadn't retained an attorney and still refused to comply with the NSL, what do you think would have happen, Mac? Do you think the FBI would have said "Oh, okay. Well have a nice then!"? No. They would have put his ass jail.

    I don't know what world you live in, but in my world, that's using force. It wasn't until a court intervined that the FBI backed off.
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking." -Gen. George S. Patton

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    Yeah, we all know wacky that PBS reporting is.
    Actually, since you mentioned it, yes, we do:

    Time To Pull The Plug on PBS
    by Chris Bowers, Tue May 03, 2005 at 05:57:00 PM EST

    The way I figure it, however, if liberals can't have PBS, no one can. Just bag the whole damn thing.
    Tavis Smiley of PBS: 'We're All Working For Barack Obama'

    By Mark Finkelstein | January 9, 2009 - 10:38


    Chris Matthews won't be working alone. Back in November, the Hardball host said it was his job to make Barack Obama's presidency a success. Today, another TV journalist expressed a similar sentiment. Tavis Smiley has declared that "we're all working for Barack Obama" and that "we have to help make Obama a great president."
    The host of Tavis Smiley on PBS was a guest on Morning Joe. Reacting to Harry Reid's claim last week that he doesn't work for Barack Obama, Smiley said Reid should "put down the crack pipe." Smiley added "we're all working for Barack Obama." It soon became clear that was no passing quip, but a literal description of how he sees his role.
    A Liberal Boss For Liberal PBS
    The ultra-liberal Public Broadcasting System (PBS) has a new boss, and the head of the tax-funded network is a perfect choice for the left-leaning network – she's a certified member of America's ultra-liberal elite.

    Pat Mitchell, PBS head since March of last year, pals around with the likes of global socialist and environmental activist Mikhail Gorbachev, Ted Turner, Jane Fonda, Robert Redford and many other prominent liberals...

    ... Early in her tenure as head of the 347-station PBS empire, it was revealed that some of the top PBS member stations, which compile huge donor lists, had shared those lists with the Democratic Party, enabling them to tap into a roster of proven givers, many of whom share Mitchell's liberal views.
    PBS is "Slightly" Liberal?
    ...Check out the new panel PBS has just created to study their editorial "integrity" and "independence." It’s chock full of liberal media establishment types, including former CNN anchor Bernard Shaw, former CBS reporter Marvin Kalb, former Washington Post ombudsman Geneva Overholser, and former NBC reporter/Janet Reno spokesman Carl Stern. Their consultant is snooty former Los Angeles Times media reporter Tom Rosenstiel, who’s never found a liberal-bias debate he didn’t despise. There’s not one recognizable conservative in the whole "independence" crusade.
    Your "Goggle-fu" is inferior. You should train better, Grasshopper.

    Originally Posted by Rhino
    I showed you evidence.
    You showed me a video which miserably fails to support your baseless accusations. I could find better fare on YouTube by searching "Britany Spears".

    Originally Posted by Rhino
    It's up to you whether or not you want to keep your head in the sand.
    You are arguing 'abuses by the State', and using a single source (a State-funded and overtly liberally-slanted media outlet). (And you claim you are a 'libertarian??") Wow... just wow.
    If my head is in the sand, it is there in an attempt to locate the credibility of your argument here. The closest I've come to it has been from watching Harry Reid on CSPAN, (I have to go take a shower now).

    Originally Posted by Rhino
    If that Librarian hadn't retained an attorney and still refused to comply with the NSL, what do you think would have happen, Mac? Do you think the FBI would have said "Oh, okay. Well have a nice then!"? No. They would have put his ass jail.
    So, your argument is that the librarians were subjected to a demand for information, which they felt unreasonable, and pursued legal avenues to halt the 'abuse' that they suffered, which was in fact, blocked by the court. Was 'force' used by the FBI? No. Was there a 'due process' of law? Yes, contrary to your argument.

    Now I'm going to ask you to think like a cop for a moment;

    What if the threat from the library computer had been real? These 'heroic' librarians (in their 'quest to secure civil liberties') delayed an investigation into a terrorist threat, literally blocking the FBI's attempt at locating and validating the source of that threat. Had the information been true and correct, and the attack impending and carried out thanks to the interference, would they still be 'heroes' to their ACLU buddies?

    Don't anwer that. I believe I already know the answer. Evidently seeing 1,000 or more innocent dead is far less important than admitting a single philosophical wrong to a liberal.

    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."
    - Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

    Tell me not, Sweet, I am unkind,
    That from the nunnery
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    To war and arms I fly.
    - Lovelace

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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post

    I don't know what world you live in, but in my world, that's using force. It wasn't until a court intervined that the FBI backed off.
    Don't look now, but I saw some due process in your argument about there being no due process.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  5. #25
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    CB and MacLean:

    What's more important to you: Security or Freedom? From your posts, it sounds like you're saying security is more important. So if you're going to call me liberal- let's watch those stones while you're in a glass house.
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking." -Gen. George S. Patton

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    CB and MacLean:

    What's more important to you: Security or Freedom? From your posts, it sounds like you're saying security is more important. So if you're going to call me liberal- let's watch those stones while you're in a glass house.
    If you aren't going to allow this nation to adequately secure itself and its people, what then, do you consider to be the primary function of Government? By refusing to allow a re-vamping of 30+ year-old laws, policies, and procedures to adapt to modern technologies which we have seen developed over the same course of time, then you are the one with your head firmly planted in a figurative rectum of conspiracy theories and Anarchist rhetoric.

    The preservation of our Freedom is our highest priority. That freedom must be protected with our best efforts. We must guard ourselves from those who would seek to destroy us because of their envy of the freedom that we enjoy. Our fight against terrorists specifically, is a fight against radicals who would see us (as a nation) either converted to Islam or dead for rejecting it. They have in the past, used complacency and lack of vigilance (in the guise of our 'civil liberties') against us, and we have paid terrible prices for it. Your argument is pennywise, and pound-foolish. Your hatred and mistrust of the "State" leaves you damning inconveniences, and welcoming destruction. You seemingly embrace the true enemies of the State and its people, those who revile and despise for the sake of radical and chaotic individualism. In your foolish dream of Utopia, you forget that peace must have a vigilant protectorate.

    What freedom have you, if you are compelled to live in fear of the enemies of this nation? What freedom do you have truly, without security? What freedom have you but a false and fragile one, if you demand our military and intelligence communities remain ignorant, shackled, and blinded from having the necessary authority and ability to efficiently locate and subvert those who would do us harm? Better yet, what world do you live in, where threats do not warrant investigation; and only attacks demand reaction? Do you see those trees? That is a forest.

    Now, as for my 'house', I do not believe that anyone who has ever read a single sentence that I have written, (here or elsewhere) could reasonably surmise that I am anything but the staunchest of conservatives.

    My house is built with Amazon Rainforest timber, erected by non-union labor, mortared with bricks hewn from Reagan's fireplace. It has no solar panels, but does sport a large garage for my full size pickup and my full size gas-guzzling SUV. I have a ground-rumbling Harley in that garage too, and I think that Prius drivers are pussies.

    God bless America.

    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."
    - Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

    Tell me not, Sweet, I am unkind,
    That from the nunnery
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    To war and arms I fly.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by countybear View Post

    My house is built with Amazon Rainforest timber, mortared with bricks hewn from Reagan's fireplace, has no solar panels, and a large garage for my full size pickup and my full size gas-guzzling SUV. I have a Harley in that garage, and I think all Prius drivers are pussies.

  8. #28
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    @ Jenna:


    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."
    - Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

    Tell me not, Sweet, I am unkind,
    That from the nunnery
    Of thy chaste breast and quiet mind
    To war and arms I fly.
    - Lovelace

    The opinions expressed by this poster are wholly his own, and should never be construed to even remotely be in representation of his employer, its agencies or assigns. In fact, they probably fail to be in alignment with the opinions of any rational human being.

  9. #29
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  10. #30
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    CB and MacLean:

    What's more important to you: Security or Freedom? From your posts, it sounds like you're saying security is more important. So if you're going to call me liberal- let's watch those stones while you're in a glass house.
    I didn't call you liberal.

    I called into question your suggestion that there was a law that deprived you of due process - and I still do.

    I'm about as libertarian as you will find anyone who is still rational. Beyond a certain point, any political viewpoint becomes extreme, paranoid, and self destructive. Libertarians achieve this somewhat faster than others, sadly.

    I certainly will not have my devotion to freedom questioned by anyone who has paid attention to my service - civilian and military.

    You simply have not established that what you said is true, and until you do I will call you on it.

    I am not one who suggests we need to break eggs to preserve the breakfast - but I am unlikely to believe anyone who screams about broken eggs when they can't produce even the fragment of a shell.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  11. #31
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    This conspiracy knows no bounds:

    YouTube - Help, Help, I'm Being Repressed!

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    You simply have not established that what you said is true, and until you do I will call you on it.
    But I did. Ignoring my evidence is a great stragedy. I also hear covering your ears and screaming "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR WHAT RHINO IS SAYING!" Is also a good stragedy.
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking." -Gen. George S. Patton

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    But I did. Ignoring my evidence is a great stragedy. I also hear covering your ears and screaming "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR WHAT RHINO IS SAYING!" Is also a good stragedy.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    But I did. Ignoring my evidence is a great stragedy. I also hear covering your ears and screaming "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR WHAT RHINO IS SAYING!" Is also a good stragedy.
    Dear sir,

    We have been down this road before today.

    The conclusion has been the same.

    You post some crackpot video or a half baked assertion by a quasi-journalist, and when people suggest you haven't proven your point you accuse them of ignoring your "evidence" or having their heads in the sand.

    Those that know me are aware of a latin quote on my locker. It has been there quite some time.

    It says "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur."

    Write when you get the joke, until then adieu.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    But I did. Ignoring my evidence is a great stragedy. I also hear covering your ears and screaming "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR WHAT RHINO IS SAYING!" Is also a good stragedy.
    I can honestly say that I watched the entire video you posted as "your evidence."

    In fact, your video disagrees with the claim that you made wherein you state that the Patriot Act enables the government to use force against (you) without due process, in that:

    1. No 'force' was used against the librarians who defied the National Security Letter, and,
    2. A court upheld the librarians' refusal to release records without court order, which in fact, amounts to 'due process of law'.

    As far as the NSA part of the video, capture of entire 'bulk' streams of data, (the video admits), are indeed necessary to conduct surveillance on high-tech electronic communications, and no where in USA Patriot I or II (that I've read) is the government given the authority to conduct and prosecute a non-terrorism or at minimum, immigration-related case based on evidence obtained in bulk data streams.

    Come up with evidence which supports your claims, rather than discounts them.

    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."
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  16. #36
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    I'm bowing out. Because I do feel like no matter what evidence I post won't be good enough. You both clearly know how to use use Google. Look up the first PATRIOT Act that was passed into law and see for yourself. The point of my comments was to hopefully open your eyes, not turn this into some penis lenght contest.

    You'll either read the original P-act and see it for what it was, or you won't and continue to believe whatever your personal political party spoon-feeds you. Me? I'm going ton continue to think for myself.

    Good luck.
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking." -Gen. George S. Patton

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    I'm bowing out. Because I do feel like no matter what evidence I post won't be good enough. You both clearly know how to use use Google. Look up the first PATRIOT Act that was passed into law and see for yourself. The point of my comments was to hopefully open your eyes, not turn this into some penis lenght contest.

    You'll either read the original P-act and see it for what it was, or you won't and continue to believe whatever your personal political party spoon-feeds you. Me? I'm going ton continue to think for myself.

    Good luck.


    You had to sneak that in there, huh? Even when you "bow out", you do so with snide remarks about the naivete of others, and juxtapose yourself as an enlightened thinker. Without getting too embattled here, I'm going to venture to bet that a poll of this site's core users would identify both CB and Mac as two posters who think for themselves and who most definitely do not eat the spoon-fed party lines of ANY political ideology.

    Maybe if you, just ONCE, presented your viewpoint as your "opinion", and your opinion ONLY, people might be a little less critical. Instead, you tout your beliefs like golden mcnuggets of fuck-off-if-you-don't-agree-with-me-honest-to-God truth.

    For someone who didn't want to make this a penis-length contest, you sure try to helicopter your little guy around under the guise of "opening our eyes."
    "If anything worthwhile comes of this tragedy, it should be the realization by every citizen that often the only thing that stands between them and losing everything they hold dear... is the man wearing a badge." -- Ronald Reagan, in the wake of the deaths of 4 CHP troopers in the Newhall Incident, 1970

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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    I'm bowing out. Because I do feel like no matter what evidence I post won't be good enough.
    Perhaps if you provided any evidence to substantiate even one claim...

    You both clearly know how to use use Google. Look up the first PATRIOT Act that was passed into law and see for yourself.
    I already did that. In fact, had you read, I referred to it in my last post. The document is long and a bit convoluted, but actually grants some safeguards against the very practices you say it presents.

    The point of my comments was to hopefully open your eyes, not turn this into some penis lenght contest.
    I do not consider asking for a substantiation of your claims 'some penis leng(th) contest. My eyes are fine, and I am quite satisfied with my penis as well; such that I have no interest in comparison with yours or any others, for that matter. But, thank you for your concern.

    You'll either read the original P-act and see it for what it was, or you won't and continue to believe whatever your personal political party spoon-feeds you.
    You have chosen to refer to the USA PATRIOT Act (I) as a dumb move on President Bush's part, when in fact, the measure was adopted by Congress with only one (yes, one) dissenting vote, that of Democrat Russ Feingold. Yes, true, the President signed the act into law, however when was the last time that you even heard of so large and sweeping a collection of legislation passing with only one detractor?

    Regardless of what you believe to be 'spoon feeding' by a particular party, it would seem to me that it is you who is more ill-informed, yet supremely self-actualized, in that you attribute this entire Act as if handed down unilaterally by the President alone. That, to me, is but more of the rantings of both media and Democrats. Democratic candidates and Congressmen, in their convenient loss of memory about actually voting for the Act that they now publicly detest, offer much of the same brand of misinformation, spin, and misdirection which you display here. The difference is, they do it intentionally, while you are just seemingly clueless. I suggest you 'un-spoon', and re-evaluate your own truths, before you backhandedly attempt to rebuff others.

    Me? I'm going ton continue to think for myself.
    In order to think for yourself, you must first be honest with yourself. By appearances, you really know very little about the Patriot Act, other than what you've heard and read in whiny ill-informed news articles and web journals. Also as it appears, you again (as you have so frequently in the past here) have not even taken the time to investigate your incredible claims before you make them, yet you hurriedly 'google' your way around them after being called out in order to attempt to save face. Irrespective of appearance, you fail. You have failed in the past, and you will fail again to make your case without better due dilligence.

    May I suggest, that you just don't make ridiculous claims without first at least attempting to research, substantiate, and support them. At very least, be better prepared to defend them than you were with this one. The controversy (and drama) you routinely create here was at one time entertaining, but now has grown tiresome. You probably are a decent guy, but you seem to be trying a little too hard to make a splash, much akin to the showoff, loudmouthed geek kid at the swimming pool who just scares all the pretty girls away.

    Good luck.
    If your contentions here are honestly how you view your country and the world, you are in more need of luck than I am.

    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."
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  19. #39
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    I am in the middle of trying to "open my eyes" here. What I need to know, to continue, is what is your definition of the word force in this context?

    "a law that gives the government the right to use force against me without due process as protected by the Constitution."
    And is there a certain portion of the Act you are referring to or are you speaking of it as a whole?
    I don't care if you post your response here or PM me with the info. Thanks.
    Do not war for peace. If you must war, war for justice. For without justice there is no peace. -me

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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post

    Those that know me are aware of a latin quote on my locker. It has been there quite some time.

    It says "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur."
    What a profound quote!

 

 
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