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  1. #1
    countybear's Avatar
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    Obama's Hillsborough Speech

    "What do you think a stimulus is?" Obama asked incredulously. "It’s spending — that's the whole point! Seriously.”
    The debate seemingly here (with regard to economic stimulus) is the spender, either way (through government spending or consumer spending), it is ultimately the taxpayer's money being spent, that much is beyond debate.

    Conservatives believe that the best economic stimulus is through allowing the taxpayers to keep more of their earnings (through tax incentives), thus having more to spend in the market. Liberals believe that the best means is for the government to increase its own spending, targeted at its agendas.

    Who's right? Who's wrong? Why?

    Discuss...

    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."
    - Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

    Tell me not, Sweet, I am unkind,
    That from the nunnery
    Of thy chaste breast and quiet mind
    To war and arms I fly.
    - Lovelace

    The opinions expressed by this poster are wholly his own, and should never be construed to even remotely be in representation of his employer, its agencies or assigns. In fact, they probably fail to be in alignment with the opinions of any rational human being.

  2. #2
    lewisipso's Avatar
    lewisipso is offline Injustice/Indifference/In God we trust
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    It seems to me that if the government "supplies" the money, then it gives the illusion of how the government is the "provider". If I understand the socialist agenda properly that illusion makes it seem like a good idea to depend on the government to "make it better". Therefore it would be better to depend on the government than ourselves. I know that is a simplistic approach but I'm speaking in a nutshell.
    I've always had to make my own way which is directly related to the childhood I had to endure. Now I wasn't homeless but I simply feel that if I can come from where I did and make a decent life then just about anyone can who has a mind to. I don't want the government being my provider. I'll take care of that myself.
    Do not war for peace. If you must war, war for justice. For without justice there is no peace. -me

    We are who we choose to be.

    R.I.P. Arielle. 08/20/2010-09/16/2012


  3. #3
    Five-0's Avatar
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    Government spending does not stimulate the economy. Specifically government deficit spending. By spending money simply by printing it (ie deficit spending) the government is laying the ground work for rampant inflation and skyrocketting interest rates. Both of which will lead us to the stimulated economy of the Carter years. Allowing the productive members of society (yeah I said it and I don't give a damn about PC issues) to keep what they earn, they will spend, invest in their businessess and other businessess. Obama has finally admitted what anyone with basic economic knowledge already knew. This package is a SPENDING BILL NOT A STIMULAS BILL. Making the government bigger and more influential means that the individuals will be smaller and less influential. Margret Thatcher said it best, "Socialism works until you run out of other people's money."

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

  4. #4
    countybear's Avatar
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    Both very valid posts. I'd really like to hear from someone supporting the stimulus package as well.

    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."
    - Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

    Tell me not, Sweet, I am unkind,
    That from the nunnery
    Of thy chaste breast and quiet mind
    To war and arms I fly.
    - Lovelace

    The opinions expressed by this poster are wholly his own, and should never be construed to even remotely be in representation of his employer, its agencies or assigns. In fact, they probably fail to be in alignment with the opinions of any rational human being.

  5. #5
    lewisipso's Avatar
    lewisipso is offline Injustice/Indifference/In God we trust
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    Quote Originally Posted by countybear View Post
    Both very valid posts. I'd really like to hear from someone supporting the stimulus package as well.
    Good luck on that.
    Do not war for peace. If you must war, war for justice. For without justice there is no peace. -me

    We are who we choose to be.

    R.I.P. Arielle. 08/20/2010-09/16/2012


  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by countybear View Post
    Both very valid posts. I'd really like to hear from someone supporting the stimulus package as well.
    I would support an actual stimulus package - when I see one I will let you know.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  7. #7
    Captain America's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lewisipso View Post
    It seems to me that if the government "supplies" the money, then it gives the illusion of how the government is the "provider". If I understand the socialist agenda properly that illusion makes it seem like a good idea to depend on the government to "make it better". Therefore it would be better to depend on the government than ourselves. I know that is a simplistic approach but I'm speaking in a nutshell.
    I've always had to make my own way which is directly related to the childhood I had to endure. Now I wasn't homeless but I simply feel that if I can come from where I did and make a decent life then just about anyone can who has a mind to. I don't want the government being my provider. I'll take care of that myself.
    Ditto........
    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    I would support an actual stimulus package - when I see one I will let you know.
    .........and ditto.
    SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM

    "It's a great life. You risk your skin catching killers and the juries turn them loose so they can come back and shoot at you again. If your honest , your poor your whole life. And , In the end , you wind up dying all alone on some dirty street. For what? For nothing. For a tin star."
    -Ex-Sheriff Martin Howe to Will Kane in "High Noon"

    Far from being a handicap to command, compassion is the measure of it. For unless one values the lives of his soldiers and is tormented by their ordeals , he is unfit to command.
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    Renniger-Richards-Griswold-Owens

  8. #8
    Rhino's Avatar
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    If the free market would be allowed to remain a free market, then the economy would work itself out. It was government that put us into this recession- what sane person thinks it's going to be government to get us out?
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking." -Gen. George S. Patton

  9. #9
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    If the free market would be allowed to remain a free market, then the economy would work itself out. It was government that put us into this recession- what sane person thinks it's going to be government to get us out?
    Because the one time the government intervened in the correct fashion, it worked.

    It's called tax cuts.

    And we could argue that it was not the government that put us into the recession.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  10. #10
    Five-0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    Because the one time the government intervened in the correct fashion, it worked.

    It's called tax cuts.

    And we could argue that it was not the government that put us into the recession.

    Because government stayed out of the way is not what I would call positve intervention. That is kinda like saying that I didn't hold a person's head under water so it is not my fault they quit breathing. Look out Rhino, I might just see eye to eye with you on this one.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

  11. #11
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    Because government stayed out of the way is not what I would call positve intervention.
    Eh, I dunno - I think government reforming itself is a healthy step.

    I see your point though.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  12. #12
    Rhino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    And we could argue that it was not the government that put us into the recession.
    The government was forcing banks to give loans to people they knew couldn't pay the debt. The only people who tell you this isn't true are government.

    The CRA
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking." -Gen. George S. Patton

  13. #13
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    The government was forcing banks to give loans to people they knew couldn't pay the debt. The only people who tell you this isn't true are government.

    The CRA
    10-Roger, familiar with that - but...

    I'm not convinced the recession didn't come about because of a crash in consumer confidence brought about by the media.

    We have to have a crisis to get someone like Obama elected, this provided the opportunity.

    I completely believe if people were not tightening every belt because they were told doom and gloom was coming - that doom and gloom would not have come, or at the very least it would have been a small correction.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  14. #14
    bayern's Avatar
    bayern is online now Officer First Class
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    Whanna bet that when Obama leaves office he will be a multi-millionaire along with his wife???

  15. #15
    Five-0's Avatar
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    Not all of us are tightening belts. Right now is buying time on vehicles, mutual funds, and real estate. Those of us in the know and on a cash basis are seeing opportunity and bargains.

    For me no vehicle as much as I want a new Tahoe.

    Mutual Funds, I'm still waiting for what I consider a valley floor. Perhaps three months after this pork bill passes.

    Real Estate, refinancing the house so it will paid off when I'm ready to sale. Paid off well before the young one needs college money. (even though the tennie queenie has a college fund in place and will be smart enough to land a scholarship = more cash and personalized plate on the sports car of "PLAN B" )

    When credit dries up cash is KING, and when that happens prices fall. When the credit is flowing again I will be selling at much higher prices.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

  16. #16
    MacLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    Not all of us are tightening belts. Right now is buying time on vehicles, mutual funds, and real estate. Those of us in the know and on a cash basis are seeing opportunity and bargains.
    I just moved in to a new home, and am already refinancing it.

    I also just bought a new truck, as the prices have fallen.

    I totally get that - but a lot of people didn't get the memo.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  17. #17
    Five-0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bayern View Post
    Whanna bet that when Obama leaves office he will be a multi-millionaire along with his wife???

    You're new to Chicago politics huh?

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

  18. #18
    Five-0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    I totally get that - but a lot of people didn't get the memo.
    They are called Democrats.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

 

 

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