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  1. #21
    Retdetsgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    Given recent polling results about the second amendment - nerly 70% support if you missed it - I don't think your explanation holds water, even with your caveat about timing.

    The Democratic party does not want you to have your guns, because they are afraid they cannot accomplish their agenda if you are armed.
    So, if 70% of Americans support the 2nd Amendment, then Democrats only constitute 30% of Americans????

    And I think that second statement is a bit strong. It has more to do with political posturing than Democrats being afraid Americans will rise up against them with their guns. We do manage to elect Republicans now and then. The ballot box still carries more weight in this country than anything else.

    Gun control is more of an emotional issue than anything else. Otherwise they'd have been enforcing the laws they have on the books now. It's been a way for politicians pro and con to raise money for decades.
    When I used to be somebody (I'm center top)

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retdetsgt View Post
    So, if 70% of Americans support the 2nd Amendment, then Democrats only constitute 30% of Americans????

    And I think that second statement is a bit strong. It has more to do with political posturing than Democrats being afraid Americans will rise up against them with their guns. We do manage to elect Republicans now and then. The ballot box still carries more weight in this country than anything else.

    Gun control is more of an emotional issue than anything else. Otherwise they'd have been enforcing the laws they have on the books now. It's been a way for politicians pro and con to raise money for decades.
    I'll take the worse position, in case.

    I do not believe gun control is mere political posturing.

    I'm a history nut.

    As to the 70% - Democrats themselves are not the issue, but merely who they elect.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    The Democratic party does not want you to have your guns, because they are afraid they cannot accomplish their agenda if you are armed.
    In this, I agree 100%. And then the voting-Democrats fail to see it. The swallow the "guns are evil" line that the politicians and media feed them.

    I do know a couple of hardcore liberals who agree with me on gun control. However, they don't see it as that important of an issue. I've tried to explain to them it's THE most important issue because, without it, the other issues fall on deaf ears.
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking." -Gen. George S. Patton

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    I'm a history nut.

    As to the 70% - Democrats themselves are not the issue, but merely who they elect.
    So am I.

    Which is why I can't swallow that the Democrats are afraid of an armed rebellion. Whenever the country has gotten tired of one political faction, they change leadership at the ballot. Obama won because people were sick of Bush. I voted for Bush and more or less liked him, but he was a horrible communicator and he did some dumb things as well as good ones. Even as his approval rating dropped, Congress's was lower and he still couldn't get anything done. That's why Obama must have gotten quite a few Republican votes. I believe Obama will fuck everything up and people were go back to a more conservative voting record. They always have. It's in the history of this country. If people want to hide in caves, I don't give a shit. S. Oregon used to full of white separatists that were sure the government was coming to take their guns any minute.

    I agree that the Democratic party has changed, so has the Republican. A lot of people switched sides making one more liberal and the other more conservative.

    People have the kind of government they want. If 70% of Americans support the 2nd Amendment, I don't see how it's in much danger. The posturing has gone back and forth since I was a kid and will continue to do so.
    When I used to be somebody (I'm center top)

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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retdetsgt View Post
    People have the kind of government they want. If 70% of Americans support the 2nd Amendment, I don't see how it's in much danger. The posturing has gone back and forth since I was a kid and will continue to do so.
    So, since you were a kid you think the issue has gone back and forth?

    Just on a basic score tally, we have lost ground until just in the last two years.

    The issue isn't armed insurrection. We'll never see that again on such a scale. The issue is that laws have to be enforced. At the point that people will resist a law by force, that law will not be passed.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


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  6. #26
    Retdetsgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    The issue isn't armed insurrection. We'll never see that again on such a scale. The issue is that laws have to be enforced. At the point that people will resist a law by force, that law will not be passed.
    Other than the AWB, about the biggest thing has been checks when buying guns to see if you are a felon or have been involuntarily confined to a mental hospital. Twenty years ago in Oregon, there was a 15 day waiting period. The last gun I bought from a dealer, I walked out the door with it as soon as I wrote the check. Now they've move it to gun shows. And none of that is anything but feel good shit.

    The laws not only have to be passed, they have to be upheld by the courts. In the meantime, people have ample time to vote those out people out of office. The election of Reagan was one great example of that. People will change who's in charge.

    The benchmark of the last century for the political parties was the Civil Rights Act of 1964. LBJ and the Democratic party gets all the credit, but it was the Republicans that got it through past Democratic leaders like Robert Byrd, Strom Thurmon, Jesse Helms and others. Byrd was one of the few to stay Democrat, the others brought their redneck, far right wing attitudes to the Republican party. The landscape has changed ever since. They were the ones keeping Democrats reasonably moderate. With them gone, the party went way to the left and the Republican swung farther to the right. A moderate of any party has no chance today.

    Don't get me wrong, I do believe we have to be vigilant about gun laws. If we don't pay attention, it will bite us in the ass. But I'm no where near ready to say the sky is falling.
    When I used to be somebody (I'm center top)

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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retdetsgt View Post

    Don't get me wrong, I do believe we have to be vigilant about gun laws. If we don't pay attention, it will bite us in the ass. But I'm no where near ready to say the sky is falling.
    I'm going to respect your perspective, but stay on the rabid side a bit. If I end up wrong, all I did was toss a few dollars towards the NRA and try to educate folks.

    If I'm right, then at least I'll have a head start.

    At least for the next four years.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  8. #28
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    Politicans are like informants. Everything they say is self-serving, has an agenda, and they will take advantage of you. Verify everything you are told, and never trust them with money or dope. They are not your friend, and never believe what they say unless you have independent verifiable reason to believe them.
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  9. #29
    Retdetsgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgtbear111 View Post
    Politicans are like informants. Everything they say is self-serving, has an agenda, and they will take advantage of you. Verify everything you are told, and never trust them with money or dope. They are not your friend, and never believe what they say unless you have independent verifiable reason to believe them.
    That about covers it in one paragraph.
    When I used to be somebody (I'm center top)

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  10. #30
    countybear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retdetsgt View Post
    That about covers it in one paragraph.
    I'd agree. Reputation sent.

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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgtbear111 View Post
    Politicans are like informants. Everything they say is self-serving, has an agenda, and they will take advantage of you. Verify everything you are told, and never trust them with money or dope. They are not your friend, and never believe what they say unless you have independent verifiable reason to believe them.
    Even then, there's a good chance they are lying!
    Molly Weasley makes Chuck Norris eat his vegetables.

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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgtbear111 View Post
    Politicans are like informants. ...never believe what they say unless you have independent verifiable reason to believe them.
    *knock, knock* SEARCH WARRANT!! BAM!!
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgtbear111 View Post
    Politicans are like informants. Everything they say is self-serving, has an agenda, and they will take advantage of you. Verify everything you are told, and never trust them with money or dope. They are not your friend, and never believe what they say unless you have independent verifiable reason to believe them.
    +1

    The only thing politicians are interested in are their special interest groups that are sending them money to support their campaign. Politicians have never been for the common man., at least not lately. I have come to learn that there is no voting for the one that is the best for the job but vote for the one that will hurt you the least.


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