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  1. #1
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    Right-wing pundits fall out: Limbaugh eviscerates Goldberg

    The infighting among conservatives has been notched up another degree, with Rush Limbaugh attempting to blast Jonah Goldberg out of the water for daring to suggest that President Obama deserves congratulations for the successful rescue of an American captain from Somali pirates.

    Goldberg wrote on his blog at the National Review on Sunday evening, "Good For President Obama. He approved the rescue. It was the right thing to do, with no small amount of risk. And God bless the SEALs."

    By Monday morning, however, Goldberg was beginning to realize he might have put his foot in it. "My morning in-box is full of snark and bile from some folks who think I shouldn't have congratulated President Obama for the rescue last night," he admitted ruefully. "But you know what? Congratulations anyway. ... I think my credentials as a critic of Obama are pretty solid. But I find the idea that I have to be critical no matter what Obama does to be exhaustingly unappealing."

    But that was before the really big guns came out. By midday, it was clear even to Goldberg that Limbaugh had been letting him have it with both barrels.

    Limbaugh began his Monday show by saying -- every word dripping with extreme sarcasm -- "I want to single out today, Jonah Goldberg at National Review Online for being the first that I saw to have the proper reaction to the rescue of Captain Phillips from the merchant marine organizers, and that was to congratulate President Obama for a job well done. And I think we all must agree, folks, that when Obama does something right, we gotta go out there and we've got to acknowledge it."

    Limbaugh's assault might be considered ill-natured, given that Goldberg had defended him just last month -- when Limbaugh came under fire for saying he wanted to see Obama fail -- and had condemned the attacks on Limbaugh as "a tired rehash."

    However, Limbaugh apparently felt no need on Monday to reciprocate for Goldberg's earlier support. After going on for a while about how the rescue should be made into a movie starring Will Smith as Barack Obama and himself, Sarah Palin, Eric Cantor, and Bobby Jindal as the pirates, Limbaugh returned to invoking Goldberg's name over and over, each time twisting the knife just a bit deeper.

    "We just can't be constant critics," Limbaugh purred. "As Jonah Goldberg has pointed out in National Review today, we must, when we see brilliance in action, decisiveness -- the SEALs? ... SEALs couldn't have done diddly-squat were it not for the decisive, cool under pressure, first test passed President Obama. ... And he deserves praise. Jonah Goldberg at National Review was first to point out, he does the right thing, we gotta say so."

    Even when a caller suggested, " I think that you're just rattled because it worked out. ... If it didn't work you would just be peeing yourself with joy," Limbaugh insisted, "I'm not upset about it. ... I was second out of the box telling people when he does the right thing we gotta -- just like Jonah Goldberg said."

    "And you are out of your mind," the caller retorted. "And I only check back ... just to make sure that you are still as crazy as I think you are. ... And you are, and you prove it every time I listen to you."

    Goldberg, meanwhile, has posted again, but merely to say, "I'm not listening" and to insist, "The idea that I am sitting by computer waiting for an opportunity to congratulate president Obama is, frankly, absurd."

    The betting window is still open for wagers on how long it will take before Goldberg is forced to issue an active apology.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terminator View Post

    The betting window is still open for wagers on how long it will take before Goldberg is forced to issue an active apology.
    An apology for what? If it was Obama making the decision to take them out, he did the right thing. Is Limbaugh critical of that? Would he have preferred that captain die so he could make his point?

    Limbaugh makes some good points now and then, but he can be as tiresome as the hate Bush group, never offering solutions, just whining all the time.

    I realize some worship Limbaugh, I'm not one. He serves a purpose, but I don't buy all he or anyone else sells.
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    The Captain of the Bainbridge gave the shoot order.
    I'm your huckleberry...

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    I mentioned this in another post, but why is NOBAMA giving orders down to one of the lowest levels of command. Isn't authority delegated down thru the Chain of Command?? Seems like he is being like LBJ in picking out individual targets ala Vietnam; Or Adolph Hitler directing the movement of individual units at the end of the 3d Reich. The mission comes down thru theChain of Command. Let the indivdual/Commander on the ground make the decisions; not from some political hack who needs a teleprompter to wipe his azz

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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    The Captain of the Bainbridge gave the shoot order.
    No doubt, but you can bet he had higher authorization. This wasn't just a simple military action nor was it during a war. It was a very high profile international incident. The first in Obama's administration and the whole world was watching. It wasn't rushed and there was plenty of time for the president and the pentagon to make the major decisions. If a split second decision had to be made, of course the captain would have made it, but this wasn't the case by a long shot.

    I don't care who the president in office is, had it been Reagan, Bush or Clinton, they weren't about to leave the outcome of this to an 0-5 or 0-6 (probably an 0-5 commanding a destroyer). The order to even bring in the SEALS would probably have come from a higher echelon. I also wouldn't be surprised to learn the SEAL officer wasn't answering to someone other than that captain.

    I'm not fan of Obama by any stretch, that has nothing to do with what happened out there in the Indian ocean.
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    Limbaugh is entertainment. That's all. Nobody should take him that seriously. I think he makes some good points sometimes but c'mon, you need a boulder of salt with these guys.

    The captain and the snipers acted under standing rules of engagement. Had they waited to call the White House and seek permission to pull the trigger, the moment would have been lost.

    Technically Obama is the head of the armed forces and when he engaged the Navy to intervene he did approve the ROE, and made the right call. But crediting him with approving the save is like crediting the Attorney General (chief law enforcer) of the US for me making a good arrest.

    I think the MSM is inappropriately using this as proof that Obama is a born leader and can make "hard calls" when all he really did was let the Navy do what they are good at.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xiphos View Post
    Limbaugh is entertainment. That's all. Nobody should take him that seriously. I think he makes some good points sometimes but c'mon, you need a boulder of salt with these guys.

    The captain and the snipers acted under standing rules of engagement. Had they waited to call the White House and seek permission to pull the trigger, the moment would have been lost.

    Technically Obama is the head of the armed forces and when he engaged the Navy to intervene he did approve the ROE, and made the right call. But crediting him with approving the save is like crediting the Attorney General (chief law enforcer) of the US for me making a good arrest.

    I think the MSM is inappropriately using this as proof that Obama is a born leader and can make "hard calls" when all he really did was let the Navy do what they are good at.
    I agree. I just can't buy that some 4 star admiral in the Pentagon was saying, "Oh, hell, it's late in the day, let's let Frank handle it". The implications of all this was way too much for a Navy Commander. I wouldn't be surprised to learn Cmdr. Castellano wasn't doing much more than providing a platform for the operation. He may have given the shoot order, but more than likely it came from a SEAL officer who was reporting to someone in the Pentagon, or at least another SEAL of command rank. Usually when a special op unit takes over a situation, they take it over.

    And Obama certainly had no other part than to allow the Navy to do it's job. Just be glad Carter wasn't in office. At least Obama let them do what was necessary. But I bet he was being briefed at least hourly and he did give the go ahead at one point.
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    SEALS do not rely on officers to make their decisions, which is why they are light on officers and you often hear of things put to a vote.

    The Captain of a US Naval vessel under weigh has more authority than some give them credit for - FAR more authority than their equal number in the Army or Air Force.

    The Captain of the Bainbridge gave the shoot order, and has said so.

    I can't claim to understand all of this, my brother tried to explain it - laws of the sea is pretty interesting stuff.
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    Centralized Command, Decentralized Execution.

    Been the doctrine for awhile. Lived it, did it.

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    I understand that laws of the sea are different. They have to be because the captain of a ship has to be able to have a lot of autonomy. And under ordinary circumstances, I'd buy that the 0-5 on the Bainbridge made all the decisions. But this one was too politically charged and there was way too much time for the Admirals and politicians to weigh in on how it was done. The situation was as political as it was military. I seriously doubt Obama gave a shit what Navy traditions are. His ass was on the line politically.

    But then, no one will probably tell us exactly how it went down.
    When I used to be somebody (I'm center top)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morris View Post
    Centralized Command, Decentralized Execution.

    Been the doctrine for awhile. Lived it, did it.
    It was the doctrine 40 years ago and longer and for good reason. I lived it too. But once you have a situation stabilized, especially one like this that's an international incident, centralized command is going to tell you what the execution will be. It will be up to the parties at the scene to decide when carry it out.
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    An interesting analysis by Blackfive on "How the rescue happened."

    UPDATE: I am getting plenty of email and chatter with the following argument:

    Gortney's statement was clear: "our authorities came directly from the president." Just to clarify, he added in response to a later question: "[T]hat was a standing authority from the president. He wasn't on the phone with the skipper of the Bainbridge saying, oh, yeah, go ahead and at that time shot."

    This does not affect my point that the commander on scene already had the authority to deal with an imminent death situation in his standing rules of engagement. It means that when this situation was escalated to national command authority i.e. Obama those rules were suspended and Obama implemented new ones specific to this incident. Then he had to restore the authority the captain already had to use deadly force to save a hostage from execution. There is considerable talk that the initial new ROE that Obama instituted did not allow a rescue so as to allow the negotiations to proceed, and then a second set of ROE was instituted after the Navy could not respond to Captain Phillip's escape attempt. That is unconfirmed but fits the facts as they happened.

    I just finished listening to the press conference w/ ADM Gortney about the rescue of Captain Phillips. At the time it happened the USS Bainbridge was towing the lifeboat to calmer waters as the sea state was deteriorating. One of the pirates was on board the Bainbridge as the talks about obtaining Phillip's release continued. The lifeboat was approx. 25 m behind the Bainbridge when snipers on the fantail observed one of the pirates in the pilot house of the lifeboat pointing an AK-47 at the back of a tied up Phillips and the other two pirates on board were visible (at least shoulders and heads). The standing authority gave them clearance to engage the pirates if the life of the captain was in imminent danger. The on scene commander deemed this to be true and gave the order to fire. All three bad guys were taken out and then a rigid inflatable boat went to the lifeboat to retrieve Phillips. Iti is unknown at this point whether the shooters were SEALs or Marine Scout Snipers as both would have been available. This was not a rescue attempt ordered by National Command Authority i.e. the President. It was a reaction by the on scene commander under standard authority to safeguard the life of a hostage.

    .....Ludicrous, I know and precisely why ROE anticipate those situations and give authority to commanders on scene. When it became a national crisis the President can review and potentially change the ROE based on what he wants to happen. If a determination is made to pursue negotiations then tighter restrictions on the local commander's authority to use deadly force could be applied. He also could have done what some reported and authorized a rescue if an opportunity presented itself. It looks like the only step he took was to allow the normal authorization for deadly force to stand, essentially doing nothing.
    Read the whole story on the site.
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    Leave it to the American media to turn its attentions to 'conservative infighting' between talk show hosts when we are facing some of the most severe and serious assaults to individual liberties by our government since the 1930's.

    If you work, the tax timebomb is ticking away, and the only entities with the authority to defuse it are donning 'Robin Hood' hats all while poised to add a few sticks of dynamite and a C4 brick to the ensuing pyre.

    Your healthcare system is falling rapidly to government control, and all the media can come up with is "Hey, the recession just might kinda be over..." and "conservative talkers can't seem to get along"...

    The newly appointed Attorney-General is screaming 'gun control', the Homeland Security Chief is sending money to Mexico that I prefer to call "alien stimulus" payments, (to bribe them into protecting us, no less), the money that we're spending isn't worth the paper its printed on, and the financial future of the nation is in the hands of persons who have shown their incompetence in their own inability to manage personal tax returns. Barney (I like it in the poop-chute) Franks is taking a bow with Nancy (law enforcement is unamerican) Pelosi, and thanking the American people by buying as many votes as they can print dollars for...

    Al (and dammit, people like me) Franken has taken another step in proving that election fraud is the wave of the future, so that the most basic means by which the people are designed to have a voice in government is supplanted... but...

    "Wow, Obama did a super job shooting all three of those pirate assholes from that rocking ship at once. Who'd have known he could shoot like that!"

    ... meanwhile, global nuclear proliferation by those hostile to this country is reaching record highs while our own newly-elected Commander-in-Chief is seeking to disarm us and our allies.

    "Thank goodness we'll be out of Iraq soon, so Iran won't have to send all its terror camp trainees there to fight us anymore..."

    ... and that Guantanamo Bay debacle is coming to a rapid end too, so those poor, tortured innocent Muslims can get a new suit and enter the witness protection program.

    ...but by all means, let's shine the light on some disagreement between media collegues.


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    Quote Originally Posted by countybear View Post
    Leave it to the American media to turn its attentions to 'conservative infighting' between talk show hosts when we are facing some of the most severe and serious assaults to individual liberties by our government since the 1930's.
    I don't disagree with the rest of what you say, but I haven't seen squat about the rift except on RP. The battle must be going on among the talk show hosts and conservative media. I haven't seen a thing in the main stream media. In fact, they rarely mention Limbaugh's name at all.

    I think Limbaugh is willing to punch it out with anybody, conservative or liberal that doesn't agree with him 100%. Publicity means more bucks for him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by countybear View Post
    Barney (I like it in the poop-chute) Franks is taking a bow with Nancy (law enforcement is unamerican) Pelosi, and thanking the American people by buying as many votes as they can print dollars for.


    S M O K E and M I R R O R S.
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    THE REAL BOTTOM LINE ON ALL THIS!




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