Did He Lie, or Did He Just Misspeak?

**countybear** · 07-06-09, 03:16 AM

My mind drifts back to a conversation we were having right here on O/R.com, where "The Obama Tax Plan" was spelled out with graphs and charts, and where I was adamantly told that according to the "Obama" plan, I would certainly be able to keep more of my hard-earned money than the McCain plan offered me.

If I remember correctly, I used words like: "naive", and "sadly mistaken"...

Axelrod: Obama Won't Rule Out Middle-Class Tax Hike

White House senior adviser David Axelrod said the president won't rule out a health care reform bill that includes a tax hike on people making less than $250,000 a year.

"The president had said in the past that he doesn't believe taxing health care benefits at any level is necessarily the best way to go here. He still believes that," Axelrod told me on This Week, "But there are a number of formulations and we'll wait and see. The important thing at this point is to keep the process moving, to keep people at the table, to the keep the discussions going. We've gotten a long way down the road and we want to finish that journey."

I pressed Axelrod on whether Obama will draw a line in the sand and veto any bill that funds health care reform with tax hikes for people making under $250,000 a year -- despite a pledge Barack Obama made during the 2008 presidential campaign not to raise taxes on the poor and middle-class.

"One of the problems we've had in this town is that people draw lines in the sand and they stop talking to each other. And you don't get anything done. That's not the way the president approaches us. He is very cognizant of protecting people -- middle class people, hard-working people who are trying to get along in a very difficult economy. And he will continue to represent them in these talks," Axelrod said.

"But they're also dealing with punishing health care costs, and that's something that we have to deal with."

The GOP point man in Congress on health care, Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Ia., suggested Obama has his work cut out for him in trying to win over Republicans to get a bipartisan bill with his preferred public option that doesn't raise taxes.

"I'm asking, and I think the White House knows my view and the view of a lot of other Republicans. Since the president denigrated John Cain's -- John McCain's effort to move in this direction during the campaign, it's going to take, in order to win over Republicans, presidential leadership in that direction," Grassley told me.

**pgg** · 07-06-09, 03:27 AM

His whole agenda so far is about costing us more money.

**Odd** · 07-06-09, 04:06 AM

He won't even have to bite his lip and say he feels our pain. A promise broken and no need for theatre to charm and calm the masses.

What's your read on how people are following politics currently? Mine is those strongly aligned with either party are following with as much, if not more, interest than ever. The rest though have dazed expressions and mumble "it's too complicated, I can't follow it" if I try to engage them.

Maybe it's just a reaction to me, I do tend to go off when I hear that foul word "pragmatic" and react much the same to the defeatist expression "it may not work, but he's trying something". Perhaps most troubling is that line was a popular way to avoid talking about the Bush stimulus and is now being used just as much with Obama. Not just that line, but that sort of sentiment in the place of genuine political interest.

I'm not talking about political junkies, rather the type of people who don't talk politics daily and then become engrossed in something that affects them. Likely they were the ones who turned out for the April 15th Tea Party which drew over twice as many as the July 4th one here. Are casual political watchers giving up or are they just taking the summer off?

**countybear** · 07-06-09, 04:30 AM

Originally Posted by Odd

Are casual political watchers giving up or are they just taking the summer off?

Sadly, while the hype about Sanford, Michael Jackson, and Palin keep them comfortably numb and distracted, it won't be until they get the cap and trade, healthcare tax "sticker shock" before they say "holy shit" prayers to the Gods of Spin... (of course, by then it will be much too late).

Remember, only when faced with "no gas" signs and 21% mortgage rates in the late seventies did the sleeping masses finally bluster.

**Jenna** · 07-06-09, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by countybear

Axelrod: Obama Won't Rule Out Middle-Class Tax Hike

He said he won't rule it out, not that he'll support it. I'm hoping he's just saying that to be diplomatic towards the Senate, and that he's negotiating with the Senate behind the scenes to avoid this. And in the unlikely story that is America, there's never been anything false about hope.

I'll be disappointed if he does break his promise, though.

**dadyswat** · 07-06-09, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Jenna

He said he won't rule it out, not that he'll support it. I'm hoping he's just saying that to be diplomatic towards the Senate, and that he's negotiating with the Senate behind the scenes to avoid this. And in the unlikely story that is America, there's never been anything false about hope.

I'll be disappointed if he does break his promise, though.

How many of his promises has he broken already? If you didn't understand he had an agenda before the election I hope you'r'e starting to realize it now. Look for More taxes, gun control, and UN control of teh US. So much for promises.

**KaiGywer** · 07-06-09, 11:24 AM

What I'm wondering is what $250,000 and middle class is doing in the same article?

**countybear** · 07-06-09, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Jenna

He said he won't rule it out, not that he'll support it. I'm hoping he's just saying that to be diplomatic towards the Senate, and that he's negotiating with the Senate behind the scenes to avoid this. And in the unlikely story that is America, there's never been anything false about hope.

I'll be disappointed if he does break his promise, though.

You are cordially invited to get a clue. I hope, (perhaps falsely), that one day you will.

You'll be dissappointed. I'll be taking on a fourth job and headed faster for an early grave. Gee, thanks.

What I'm wondering is what $250,000 and middle class is doing in the same article?

You noticed that too, eh? I remember something about $95,000 being the ceiling for tax increases pre-election. Now, its $250,000.00, and that's not a gimmee. Again, did he lie, or did he just misspeak? All of this spending in the name of 'economic stimulus' has to be paid for by someone, and you can bet 33% of your next paycheck that it won't be the socialist liberals who feel the bite. They'll be so invested in shelters that they won't feel the rain. But, this is what happens when those in control of how much you pay in taxes are tax evaders themselves. I sure hope they feel 'stimulated' soon, I don't have much more than blood for them to take anymore.

Do you find it amusing that they were screaming about deficit spending when a Republican was in office, now its all fashionable?

Look at your history, its always been the American working-class taxpayers who take a bath when Carter-esque policies are chiseled in stone.

Hypocrisy is an ugly thing.

**213th** · 07-06-09, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by KaiGywer

What I'm wondering is what $250,000 and middle class is doing in the same article?

Yeah...if that's middle class then I must be below poverty level. And although it feels it most days, I'm not. I don't know exact figures, but I would say I'm middle class. But I sure as heck can't afford any more taxes.

Obama. A presidency obtained by lies, a foundation of broken promises. There never was intent on following through with them. I could see it before it happened. Alot could, but not enough. Maybe more can see it now...maybe it'll be enough in 2012.

**Five-0** · 07-06-09, 03:06 PM

Whoa now, elections have consequences......who woulda thunk it. Don't worry, we are not the only ones that don't have much for the man. We are about to get hosed by the Russians.

A picture says how many words again?

**dadyswat** · 07-06-09, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by 213th

Yeah...if that's middle class then I must be below poverty level. And although it feels it most days, I'm not. I don't know exact figures, but I would say I'm middle class. But I sure as heck can't afford any more taxes.

Obama. A presidency obtained by lies, a foundation of broken promises. There never was intent on following through with them. I could see it before it happened. Alot could, but not enough. Maybe more can see it now...maybe it'll be enough in 2012.

I'm afraid it's just starting Cap & Trade (energy tax), Health care (tax you employer's portion of health care policy), soda pop tax( too much sugar tax), VAT(national sales tax) and etc.

**ex401mp** · 07-06-09, 04:00 PM

Pretty soon those assholes will be taxing your taxes because there is nothing else left.

**countybear** · 07-06-09, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by ex401mp

Pretty soon those assholes will be taxing your taxes because there is nothing else left.

Already happening. See: Social Security - tax paid in, tax paid out.

**ex401mp** · 07-06-09, 05:52 PM

There's just no end....

**MonsterMash** · 07-07-09, 03:05 AM

First of all, it would help people to realize that the "two party system" is a sham. Democrats and Republicans both do the exact same thing........take more money. Its a huge shell game. And as long as the sheeple out there are engrossed in the latest American Idol. they won't have a clue as to the current state of the country. Nor will they care either. Long as their big screens work, and McDonalds is open, they are happy.

**TXCharlie** · 07-07-09, 05:27 AM

Somebody must have FINALLY informed Obama that there are not enough rich people to make up for the deficits - even if you tax all of them at 100%, there still wouldn't be enough revenue. The middle class will have to be taxed to death too.

Our only real hope is that the economy picks up so they can cancel any further stimulus spending, if they will do that.

I still think most of the stimulus will be wasted on stuff like rebuilding roads that don't need to be rebuilt, and buying equipment that doesn't need to be bought.

It would be MUCH better spent on small businesses in the form of drastic tax cuts, and direct checks to taxpayers, or cancling all income or payroll taxes for the rest of the year..

**dadyswat** · 07-07-09, 06:54 AM

I don't really think you're going to see the economy pick up much anywhere soon because everything they're doing is putting businesses in a bind because they don't know what's coming next. Most businesses aren't going to expand until they know what their obligations are going to be. The cap and trade bill alone has the potential to kill any recovery.