Welcome to the APBWeb.
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22
  1. #1
    lewisipso's Avatar
    lewisipso is offline Injustice/Indifference/In God we trust
    Supporting Member Lvl 3
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    02-02-07
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    14,721
    Rep Power
    6936012

    Don't let ignorant people vote

    Grand Rapids, Michigan (CNN) -- Should ignorant people be allowed to vote?
    A provocative question for sure; however, I'm not bringing it up for shock value, but rather to give us all pause.
    If I were to ask you to ingest an unknown medicine from someone who knew nothing about the medical field, you probably wouldn't do it. And I doubt many of us would feel comfortable as a shareholder in a company that asked people who knew nothing about business to hire its next CEO?
    Yet we all know people who gleefully admit they know nothing about politics, don't have time to find out what the current issues are or even know how the government works, but go out and vote. Want to know why it seems Washington is run by a bunch of idiots? Blame this hiccup in our political system for starters. What's a solution? Weed out some of the ignorant by making people who want to vote first pass a test modeled on the one given to those who want to become citizens. (hmmm....)
    In an effort to win over ignorant voters, political campaigns are no longer targeting the movable middle as much as the easily misled. Instead of intelligent debates about important topics such as health care reform and cash-strapped states, we have an exchange of easy to remember catchphrases such as "Obamacare" and "War on Unions" -- all in the race to pander to people who can't explain what Congress does.
    Or have a firm grasp of how tax dollars are spent.
    In a recent CNN poll, more than a third of the people questioned wanted to see cuts in military spending, which is a good debate to have. The problem is the poll also revealed most Americans think the military takes up 30 percent of the budget when in reality it's 19 percent. If we don't know how much money is being spent, how can we intelligently say it's too much? And what to make of the 20 percent of folks polled who believe public broadcasting
    represents 10 percent of the budget, when it's more like a 10th of 1 percent?
    I'm not suggesting someone needs to be a Rhodes scholar to vote.
    But voters should at least be able to name the three branches of government. Voters should understand what a "trade deficit" is and how laws are made.
    Before getting all bent out of shape by my assertion that you or someone you love is ignorant, please know I am not referring to the dictionary's first definition of the word, which typically means an uneducated or unsophisticated person. I am operating with the second usage, defined as a lack of knowledge in a specific area.
    No one is omniscient; we're all ignorant about something.
    I know close to nothing about the inner workings of my car, and so I come to my mechanic, ignorant -- but not stupid. As this relates to voting, if people don't know much about current government and politics, they too are ignorant, not necessarily stupid. The difference is that naively paying too much for repairs on a car is not nearly as damaging to foreign policy as a bunch of ignorant voters hitting the polls.
    Am I advocating for some sort of elitism?
    You betcha.
    One of the more counterproductive byproducts of having our political system hijacked by campaigns obsessed with ignorant voters is that the word "elite" has been saddled with terrible PR. True, one boilerplate definition essentially means "rich snobs" but another -- and the one more central to my point -- means the best or most skilled in a group. We don't seem to have a problem understanding the importance of having elite athletes on our favorite sports team, but some of us have been trained to have a gag reflex at the very mention of the country's elite thinkers running the country.
    The Founding Fathers were not a bunch of average Joes with gripes about England; they were elite thinkers and philosophers. James Madison attended what is now Princeton. John Hancock went to Harvard. Thomas Jefferson enrolled at the College of William and Mary when he was 16. Today it seems the more education a candidate has, the harder he or she has to work to distance him or herself from it.


    Don't let ignorant people vote - CNN.com
    Do not war for peace. If you must war, war for justice. For without justice there is no peace. -me

    We are who we choose to be.

    R.I.P. Arielle. 08/20/2010-09/16/2012


  2. #2
    Xiphos's Avatar
    Xiphos is online now I Void Warranties
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    03-09-08
    Location
    Thermopylae
    Posts
    8,378
    Rep Power
    7772239
    I think active military service or owning property should be a requirement for voting. And not some postage stamp. Either improved with a structure (house) or something big enough to pay taxes on. If you are living on public housing with welfare bills being paid for, sorry you can no longer vote the public fund into your pocket.
    Pleasing nobody, one person at a time.

    That which does not kill me, better start fucking running.

    If I lived every day like it was my last, the body count would be staggering.

    I intend to go in harm's way. -John Paul Jones

    Hunt the wolf, and bring light to the dark places that others fear to go. LT COL Dave Grossman

  3. #3
    Jenna's Avatar
    Jenna is offline sheep
    Premium Lifetime Member
    Join Date
    06-11-06
    Posts
    24,374
    Rep Power
    4817857
    As much as I wish more people would vote based on research about each candidate's record and proposals instead of on how physically attractive or good at telling jokes a candidate is, there's too much risk that any test will unfairly exclude one group or another. Democrats are more likely to know more about certain things (such as civil rights and social welfare programs), while Republicans are more likely to know more about other things (such as gun rights and corporate tax laws), so whichever test questions are chosen will favor one party or another, and the choice of test questions would be very politicized. And people shouldn't lose the right to vote just because they couldn't afford to attend college. In the past some election officials used tests to keep African-Americans from exercising their right to vote.

  4. #4
    Five-0's Avatar
    Five-0 is offline Super Moderator
    Premium Lifetime Member
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    05-15-06
    Posts
    10,982
    Rep Power
    8357018
    I would prefer the corporate approach. In order to vote you must be paying some amount in federal income taxes. If you pay taxes on property in addition to that you get another vote. Military service another vote. Up to that magical three votes. The more skin you have in the game the more influence you get. Just like owning more shares, but instead of owning shares in a corporation the individual owns shares in the Republic. Damn auto correct.

  5. #5
    Five-0's Avatar
    Five-0 is offline Super Moderator
    Premium Lifetime Member
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    05-15-06
    Posts
    10,982
    Rep Power
    8357018
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna View Post
    Democrats are more likely to know certain things, while Republicans are more likely to know other things. So any test questions will be biased in favor of one party or another.
    I'd be happy with knowing the three branches of government.

    Meanwhile, fishing in Russia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzV5AIK8iM
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." -- Frederic Bastiat

    "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

    The opinions given in my signatures & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Five-0" on Officerresource.com

  6. #6
    Jenna's Avatar
    Jenna is offline sheep
    Premium Lifetime Member
    Join Date
    06-11-06
    Posts
    24,374
    Rep Power
    4817857
    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    I'd be happy with knowing the three branches of government.
    Branch 1: the media; branch 2: the public schools; branch 3, the labor unions, right?

  7. #7
    Jenna's Avatar
    Jenna is offline sheep
    Premium Lifetime Member
    Join Date
    06-11-06
    Posts
    24,374
    Rep Power
    4817857
    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    I would prefer the cooperate approach. In order to vote you must be paying some amount in federal income taxes. If you pay taxes on property in addition to that you get another vote. Military service another vote. Up to that magical three votes. The more skin you have in the game the more influence you get. Just like owning more shares, but instead of owning shares in a cooperation the individual owns shares in the Republic
    We already have that, in that the more money you can afford to contribute to political campaigns and political action committees, the more votes of ignorant people you can influence by making slick political ads, and thus the more politicians you can buy influence with.

  8. #8
    MacLean's Avatar
    MacLean is offline O/R Gun mod
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    09-05-07
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    11,802
    Rep Power
    4584773
    I'm going to be contrary.

    Your right to vote is not predicated on land ownership, money, taxes paid, or any other such standard.

    Your right to vote is predicated on being a citizen of the United States, and that is enough.

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  9. #9
    Xiphos's Avatar
    Xiphos is online now I Void Warranties
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    03-09-08
    Location
    Thermopylae
    Posts
    8,378
    Rep Power
    7772239
    Quote Originally Posted by MacLean View Post
    I'm going to be contrary.

    Your right to vote is not predicated on land ownership, money, taxes paid, or any other such standard.

    Your right to vote is predicated on being a citizen of the United States, and that is enough.

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
    Quit wrecking pipe dreams.
    Pleasing nobody, one person at a time.

    That which does not kill me, better start fucking running.

    If I lived every day like it was my last, the body count would be staggering.

    I intend to go in harm's way. -John Paul Jones

    Hunt the wolf, and bring light to the dark places that others fear to go. LT COL Dave Grossman

  10. #10
    Pinki's Avatar
    Pinki is offline Sergeant
    Supporting Member Lvl 2
    Join Date
    12-22-06
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,729
    Rep Power
    462843
    While I guess I would have to agree that ignorant people should be able to vote -- I do think they should have to provide identification.

    A different topic -- but similar -- I would like to see that only candidates that have served in the military should be allowed to run for/become President of the United States.
    Arm the sheep!

  11. #11
    Pudge's Avatar
    Pudge is online now Site Admin
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    12-04-05
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    10,320
    Rep Power
    8591417
    The truly ignorant already don't vote. They are the morons who don't bother to register, or don't show up to the polls, yet still bitch about Government.
    "Like" us on facebook! https://www.facebook.com/pages/Offic...93147194083228

    Follow members of O/R as they tweet a "Ride a long" on their shifts on the front page of the site and on twitter at the following links:

    www.twitter.com/PoliceRideAlong
    www.twitter.com/lewisipso
    www.twitter.com/ORgopher
    www.twitter.com/SecondChance122
    www.twitter.com/pojmm
    www.twitter.com/ORGIB

    The opinions given in my posts & threads DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only, thereby releasing my agency of any liability, or involvement in anything posted under the username "Pudge" on Officerresource.com

  12. #12
    pharmer's Avatar
    pharmer is offline Legal Dealer
    Join Date
    05-20-06
    Location
    North Alabama
    Posts
    327
    Rep Power
    521913
    Quote Originally Posted by Five-0 View Post
    I would prefer the corporate approach. In order to vote you must be paying some amount in federal income taxes. If you pay taxes on property in addition to that you get another vote. Military service another vote. Up to that magical three votes. The more skin you have in the game the more influence you get. Just like owning more shares, but instead of owning shares in a corporation the individual owns shares in the Republic. Damn auto correct.
    +1

  13. #13
    mack's Avatar
    mack is offline Officer Resource Offical Auctioneer
    Premium Lifetime Member
    Join Date
    05-25-07
    Location
    SE Indiana, I love this weather!
    Posts
    3,388
    Rep Power
    555156
    I moved to this part of the country in 2007. When November rolled around in 2008 there were a lot of local issues on the ballet along with the presidential issue. When I voted, I only voted for the president as I wasn't up to date on local issues and didn't know any of the state, county or city politicians so I felt is was unfair of me to help to decide these things without knowledge of them. When I use the power of my vote, I want to know what it is I am voting on or for, not just eeny meeny miney mo. I guess that is my answer on should ignorant people vote.

    My dad, I miss him every day.

    Originally Posted by Wolven
    Life is too short to wear unsexy underwear.


    I am a female!!!!! LMAO

    Be who you are and say what you feel.....
    Because those that matter...don't mind...
    And those that mind...don't matter

  14. #14
    keith720's Avatar
    keith720 is offline Finely Aged
    Premium Lifetime Member
    Verified LEO
    Site Moderator
    Join Date
    01-06-06
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    5,364
    Rep Power
    5488746
    Quote Originally Posted by MacLean View Post
    I'm going to be contrary.

    Your right to vote is not predicated on land ownership, money, taxes paid, or any other such standard.

    Your right to vote is predicated on being a citizen of the United States, and that is enough.

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    I agree with you on this, but there are a lot of people who don't know diddly about why they are voting for a candidate. As Jenna said, many base their vote on nothing more than the way a candidate looks, regardless of their inexperience. Look where that got us now!
    For the morning will come. Brightly will it shine on the brave and true, kindly upon all who suffer for the cause, glorious upon the tombs of heroes. Thus will shine the dawn.

    Winston Churchill

  15. #15
    Willowdared's Avatar
    Willowdared is offline Bendy not Breaky
    Join Date
    04-26-06
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    6,177
    Rep Power
    1401351
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinki View Post
    A different topic -- but similar -- I would like to see that only candidates that have served in the military should be allowed to run for/become President of the United States.
    I'm just curious why you think only military service qualifies?
    Molly Weasley makes Chuck Norris eat his vegetables.

    Do not puff, shade, skew, tailor, firm up, stretch, massage,
    or otherwise distort statements of fact.
    FBI Special Agent Coleen Rowley

  16. #16
    MacLean's Avatar
    MacLean is offline O/R Gun mod
    Verified LEO
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    09-05-07
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    11,802
    Rep Power
    4584773
    Quote Originally Posted by Willowdared View Post
    I'm just curious why you think only military service qualifies?
    It wasn't my idea, but it is one I support with my vote.

    (I wouldn't make it a legal requirement.)

    Any Commander in Chief who hasn't been through basic training isn't going to get it.
    I'm your huckleberry...

    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentus telum est!

    You can be the weapon, and the gun in your hand is a tool - or the gun is a weapon and you are the tool.


    I was looking for a saint who was a devil of a lover,
    but every girl I found was either one way or the other...



  17. #17
    213th's Avatar
    213th is offline Solipsist
    Join Date
    12-19-05
    Location
    64.3 N 149.1 W
    Posts
    3,672
    Rep Power
    1712095
    Quote Originally Posted by MacLean View Post
    It wasn't my idea, but it is one I support with my vote.

    (I wouldn't make it a legal requirement.)

    Any Commander in Chief who hasn't been through basic training isn't going to get it.
    Yeah, if you are going to be in charge of all the military, you need to have experienced it.
    He who has the money, signs the cheques.
    He who signs the cheques, makes the rules.
    He who makes the rules, has the power.
    He who has the power, has the money.

  18. #18
    Pinki's Avatar
    Pinki is offline Sergeant
    Supporting Member Lvl 2
    Join Date
    12-22-06
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,729
    Rep Power
    462843
    Quote Originally Posted by Willowdared View Post
    I'm just curious why you think only military service qualifies?
    I don't think only military service qualifies, but I think it should be a requirement (which it is not at the present time).

    Quote Originally Posted by 213th View Post
    Yeah, if you are going to be in charge of all the military, you need to have experienced it.
    This - exactly.
    Arm the sheep!

  19. #19
    StoleIt is offline Officer First Class
    Join Date
    03-26-10
    Posts
    176
    Rep Power
    193464
    Democracy fails once the people figure out they can vote themselves more money.

    Once that happens we can't recover from it...and I think it's happening now. If a certain someone is re-elected in 2012 it's all over. People are going to HATE the GOP for fixing the budget...but it has to happen. Otherwise we will quickly turn into Greece, Turkey, etc when our currency becomes insolvent.

    Fact of the matter is there are more poor people on welfare going to vote in this next election than middle class independent voters. And do you really think the people who get their (augmented) income from the government are going to say, "Hm this guy thinks I don't deserve this money and should get a job...yea I'll vote for him."

    Fuck no they aren't. They are going after the guy who is going to promise them more money by taking it from the "evil" people who obviously used greed, backstabbing, and shady morals to reach their success.

  20. #20
    Napalm's Avatar
    Napalm is offline Master Officer
    Verified LEO
    Join Date
    11-21-09
    Posts
    218
    Rep Power
    410084
    Quote Originally Posted by Pudge View Post
    The truly ignorant already don't vote. They are the morons who don't bother to register, or don't show up to the polls, yet still bitch about Government.
    I beg to differ....Look who's POTUS right now. Proof that a lot ignorant people voted!
    Wiping the turds of humanity from the ass of society from 1600 to midnight.

 

 
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •